Tell me about puppies

[numberonehundred]

So, we lost our dog a few months ago. And he was a puppy 10 years ago. And being my first dog I did everything wrong and have forgotten the basics.
He whined so much he ended up sleeping in my bed for 10 years, and didn’t toilet train for ages as I used puppy pads for so long.
So I need advice.
We were looking for a Springer or pointer. And we’ve seen advertised some springer x pointers. Main reasons for these breeds - we know a few, we need child friendly, other dog friendly (for when we use home boarding), short hair and medium size dogs.
We’ve not contacted the owners yet, but I need advice re this.
Puppies are £400 and mum and dad are both living there and can be seen.
What questions should I be asking?
Before anyone asks about rescue dogs, we have 2 young children so none of our local rescues will consider us.
We’ve also decided on puppy as with tiny children I think I feel more comfortable knowing their background.
For info, old dog was a rescue and 6 months old when we got him. We were child free at the time and he was an amazing dog. But on this occasion we’ve decided on puppy.
So night times, would I need to get up in the night with puppy for toilet? How many times etc?
Is it best to crate train?
I have 3 weeks off over Xmas and only work 12 hours a week so home most of the time after this.
Where do puppies usually sleep?
I’ve heard Xmas is a bad time to get a puppy, but it’s the only time I’m going to have a few solid weeks at home.
What else do I need to know?

Not dog related but my cats were rescued from a kitten farm. They were used for breeding. One of them died aged 8 from hereditary heart disease that a responsible breeder should have screened for. Her sister also has it and there are probably loads of her children and grandchildren out there that have it. Do not buy from a breeder who can't provide proof of health screening.

My puppy came home in her crate and used it as home for 12 months, she loved it. We placed it in the corner of the kitchen, close to the back door. She had a toy that you warmed in the microwave to snuggle down with.

Puppies will not soil their bed so keeping them in there, aids house training. For house training purposes I set the alarm and got up every night to take her out. During the day we took her out frequently during the day but especially after food, when she woke up and after a game. House training happened very quickly.

After she was fully house trained we left the crate open, unless we were going out and at night. This stopped her chewing stuff.

We did puppy classes and older dog classes. You can’t do too much training. She was allowed to socialise with other dogs on the park but we also practiced recall, over and over. I still go out with treats in my pocket to reward for recall. It’s so important to get your dog back in every situation.

Go with behaviour you’re happy with. Our puppy wasn’t allowed upstairs or on the sofas. She was never fed from the table.

Our old dog would constantly soil his own bed as a puppy. Despite being told dogs never did that!
I remember having puppy blues majorly 10 years ago so hoping to be more prepared this time.

Any dog advertised now will come from a backyard breeder at best and a puppy farm at worst. Decent breeders don't let their puppies go over Christmas (or don't breed for this time of year) because it's so likely that the dogs will end up in the wrong hands.

Please don't get a puppy from an online advert. Take your time and do your research. Find a decent breeder (not someone who's bred mongrels) and wait.

I definitely need to ask about the situation.
They may be breeders that breed this cross for a reason? They may do health checks and just haven’t advertised this.
They do come microchipped which gives me some hope that they might be more than back yard breeders. But we shall see.

Our old dog would constantly soil his own bed as a puppy. Despite being told dogs never did that

My understanding is that puppies that are removed from their mothers too soon do that. It’s the mother that teaches them to leave home to go to the toilet, otherwise their bed would be disgusting.

Any responsible breeder keeps the puppies with their mother until they go to their new home.

He was a rescue dog. Only 6 months old, but no idea of background so quite possibly true.

They do come microchipped which gives me some hope that they might be more than back yard breeders.

It's the law that all puppies are microchipped before 8 weeks of age. It's not the law that they have relevant health checks!

Please don't get one of these puppies. Decent breeders do not advertise their litters online like that, nor do they breed mongrels/crosses.

You've clearly got the idea in your head that you want a puppy but please do the right thing and wait.

I’m not 100% sure either way.
I know that we want a mongrel, and I know that shelters won’t re home to us with young kids.
I don’t know how else to go about finding this other than on pets4homes etc?
Any ideas?
All of the pedigree sites with breeders details are for pure breeds not cross breeds.

They’re either a working litter aimed at people wanting to work them, in which case they’d be health tested, the parents would have a proven track record of working and it’s a bit unlikely they’d be needing to advertise them as demand would be pretty high for them in working circles... and they’re really not going to be suitable for an average pet home. (A litter bred specifically for working really isn’t the same as that breed but not bred for that in terms of energy levels and drive)

Or they’re someone after some money using their dogs.

Oh I really sympathise with you! If anything happened to our dog I'd be desperate to fill the hole quickly with a new pup.

He's only 3 so the puppy blues are still fairly raw. I'm another one to second summer months alongside a pedigree with proper health checks.

If rescue pups are not possible for you I would stick with a known breed. The issue with cross breeds is that the breeders will always tout the 'best of both' but can never guarantee this and sometimes can be the worst of both breeds.

I also second labs as a good choice for being reliable and child friendly (if from a reputable breeder). Ours had all the right tests done, the owners asked US questions to ensure her pup was going to a good home (always a good sign) and we met the parents. The situation you declare I've just doesn't sit quite right.

Our dog can be a nightmare with myself and my husband getting over excited and snatching the ball but as soon as that ball is in the hands of my 18 month old niece he is an angel...never jumps, never barks, never snatched and adores her.

I would wait til the summer-toilet training is such a fundamental part and doing it in winter is so tough.

Good luck with your search!

@numberonehundred What is it that makes you sure you want a cross breed/mongrel ? (This isn't meant to be an inflammatory question, just wondering 😊)

I’ve just always had cross breeds.
I like the mix of everything look.
I suppose I don’t know any different.
Plus life span is supposedly higher in mixed breeds isn’t it?

You won't find a cross breed from a decent breeder.

@numberonehundred I think it depends... if getting a cross breed and they do all the relevant health tests for both breeds then that's a great first step. If you don't get those checks then they could potentially have the common health issues from both breeds leading to complications.

Some pedigrees have been inbred (from poor breeders) which can also negatively affect health.

I think the key here is threefold: reputable breeder, understanding health and behavioural issues of both breeds (if going cross) and all health tests. I'd insist on meeting both parents too.

We paid £550 for our pedigree so not much more expensive than a cross. Champdogs and breeders who are KC registered are a great start for pedigree. I don't know where to suggest for cross but I'd steer clear of pets4homes and perhaps see if anyone else can suggest where to look if that's what you want?

And sorry, I'll always favour labradors but everyone has their favourite breed!! Good luck OP

“Plus life span is supposedly higher in mixed breeds isn’t it?”

No, not unless it’s a proper old fashioned left to fight it out and breed themselves mongrel... and they’re usually born in rescues now as even crappy owners don’t let that happen.

Crosses of two breeds have potentially the same health problems as the two breeds in them.

So ...we bought a puppy from a 'back yard breeder' and it has been fine. We wanted a cross breed since they theoretically have less inbred problems. 3/4 poodle an 1/4 west highland terrier. We met the mum but not the dad in a house, drew up a contract that said we would take her to the vets in the first week and if there was a problem would return her. Everything has been absolutely fine - in fact one dog didn't get bought so she kept him. She answered all emails and gave advice on email. So it's not all bad for a dog to be bred at home as a non pedigree despite what purists say.

As for training- I can't even imagine toilet training in the winter. She had a poo in the house on her first day (wooden floor so not the end of the world) but no other pops in doors. She was used to puppy pads so put one down on the patio and took her there every hour. She was crate trained for night sleeps as soon as she arrived (husband slept on the sofa for 3 nights, then a baby monitor). She now takes herself there at 10.30 (almost on the dot!) and sleeps until 6am. Probably 10 wee accidents in 3 months but we still watch her all the time. She also rings bells on the back door when she wants to go out - 10 weeks old and she got the hang of it in one day.

....she's now 5 months but still totally exhausting but we love her to bits
We have now entered the insane mouthy/bitey stage which is less fun (but we stuff a toy in her mouth the second it starts - we try to stop all mouthing not just the biting).

Biggest advice is wait until summer!!!

Crossbreeds do not have fewer health problems nor do they live longer.

Some breeds are bred in a way that encourages health problems, e.g. pugs, but you should avoid those breeds as well. Buying a crossbreed with no health screening risks having a dog with hereditary problems from two breeds. You need a breed that is bred responsibly to minimize health problems. How about a poodle? Lovely dogs, generally well adjusted, healthy, friendly and come in different sizes. Everyone mixes them with everyting as they are supposed to be so brilliant but few people want an actual one.

If you're happy with a mongrel pup then there are plenty in rescues. The type of pup you describe is exactly the linda which will end up in rescue when the 'breeder' can't get them sold

Unless your children are really small ( like both under 3 ) then there are rescues who will be happy to get you a pup/ older dog.

A more likely reason to be turned down by rescues is working long hours out of the house as this really isn't practical with a puppy.

Believe me I’ve tried all of the local rescues to me.
They will not re home to under 5s.
A Romanian dog charity will, but their dogs are all a few years or older.
So hard to know what to do.
The cross breed we’ve seen we have fallen in love with.
But then I don’t want to be funding a back yard breeder.

Would you be prepared to travel? Rescues like black retriever x are worth a try.
TBH I would avoid a dog from abroad with young kids.

OP another thing you need to consider as well as health testing if you're looking at pedigrees is inbreeding coefficients.

Whilst health testing is obviously a good thing it's not the be all and end all of producing healthy dogs. Whilst any decent breeder should absolutely be utilising the health screening schemes available for their breed if they're producing litters with high inbreeding coefficients (which is unfortunately very common, though more so in some breeds than others) then they're increasing the risks of their pups being affected by some of the great many health issues which can't currently be tested for.

I'd highly recommend having a read of these two articles: Understanding the Coefficient of Inbreeding and Why DNA tests won't make dogs healthier.

Ideally you want to be looking for pups from heath tested parents who also have an inbreeding coefficient which is at least lower than the breed average (which you can find by searching for the relevant breed on this page) but ideally lower than 5% and the closer to 0% the better. If you have the KC names of the parents you can work out the COI of the litter by selecting the breed on this page then inputting the names of the parents.

Unfortunately finding a decent breeder, whether you're looking at pedigrees, crosses or mongrels, is an absolute minefield. Dog breeding as a whole is in a pretty parlous state at the moment. The best thing you can do is arm yourself with as much (unbiased and scientifically based) information as possible, keep an open mind and try to find litters with the highest possible chance of turning into healthy and well rounded individuals.