Ddog guarding me?

[Hoppinggreen]

We have a 2 Goldie boy ( neutered)
Unfortunately after we got him as a puppy it looks like he came from a front for a puppy farm. He did have some resource guarding issues and it me quitebadly when he was about 12 weeks old, he was particularly worried and anxious about DS ( then 7) who largely kept away from him as he isn’t a great dog lover anyway.
We worked really hard on getting him over it with a Dogs Trust behaviourist and he didn’t have an incident again after about 8 months old and he is now a lovely family pet, even DS has come round and does spend time with him, although he’s not as close to him as the rest of us.
Now the problem. Ddog has always had his “own” room. It’s a second sitting room where his crate was when he was small and now it has his bed and food in. He sleeps in there at night and often takes himself off there during the day too. There is a comfy chair I like to sit in as well as a few other things. If I am sitting in the chair and DS comes in Ddog growls at him and moves towards him( tail wagging). He nudges him with his head and blocks him getting across the room to where I’m sitting but doesn’t try to bite him. The growling isn’t really an aggressive growl if that makes sense but more “speaking”.if DS comes in and sits with me Ddog tries to climb on me as well - this only happens in this room
Dd ( who Ddog adores) can walk in the room with no issue at all and DH usually can but this morning as he stopped in the doorway to speak to me his foot went very close to dogs face who growled and snapped at DH foot- he made contact with his teeth but did NOT bite and then he jumped up and went to DH submssively for attention. DH has just come in again and Ddog got up and walked towards him for a pat.
What should we do ( if anything ) to stop this escalating. Ddog showed good bite inhibition with DH as I think he was surprised by a foot close to his face while sleeping but I’m more concerned that he doesn’t like DS coming into the room if I’m there. DH thinks we might need to move his bed etc but there’s no convenient other place for it
Thanks for reading. I’ve tried to make it as short as possible

I think the mistake you've made is essentially turning one room into a giant crate for him - the room is his 'safe place' and when people come in that he's not close to, he feels threatened.

The best way to "train" an animal is positive reinforcement - treat, treat and TREAT for good behaviour. So lure him away with food, treat him with food if he does something good. Could DS have a go at feeding him or training him so the dog associates him praise and treats too?

Thank you
Yes I think you may be right about the giant crate thing
On the advice of the behaviourist when we originally had issues we did encourage DS to spend more time training and feeding Ddog and they do now have a good relationship, although they aren’t close like Ddog and dd ( who all animals seem drawn to for some reason).
However I think that we should reinforce this by getting DS to offer a treat as he comes in the room

Ok, just tried that but DS doe st want to touch the treats because they “smell bad”

Did the behaviourist recommend giving Ddog territory that he is the boss in? Rewarding a dog for behaviour that you want him to repeat in a shared environment that he doesn't control is very different to paying him with treats to gain entry to territory that he regards as his own.

Ddog has no area where he is “boss” none of us do
He isn’t allowed upstairs or on the sofa and is generally not very dominant. The area he sleeps is and always has been his “safe” space wher he can go if he wants peace and quiet but until a few months ago he was happy to share it with all of us, now he is worried about DS coming into it ( and DH this morning but I suspect that was him waking up with a start). I have questioned DS and nothing has happened to explain the change but thinking back his body language can get a bit tense when anyone except me comes in but it never escalates

Jesus your priority is your DS not your dog. You have created a space that prevents your DS entering without encountering a growling guarding dog. Your dog is trying to get your attention and get on your lap when your DS is there. Whether that’s where your dogs crate is or not . He shouldn’t be growling at your DS when he enters. Time to reinforce where he sits in the pecking order before he snaps at him. He has already done this to your DH

Of course my priority is my DS or I would hardly be on here asking for suggestions - if you’ve got one please feel free to share it.

Would it be possible for you to go back and speak to the same Dogs Trust behaviourist again?

There's a lot going on here; it's something I really wouldn't feel comfortable commenting on as an unqualified member of the public.

I'm not sure why you got dogs when your son isn't keen on them. That creates a stressful atmosphere for your son. Which the dog will pick up on.
If the dog isn't using a crate anymore, I'd bring it out again and make the crate his safe place. You don't have to shut the door but he will work out it's his space rather than the whole room.
I'd also get the behaviourist back. It does sound like a ticking time bomb waiting for your dog to bite someone.

Ddog has no area where he is “boss”

Of course he does - you've given him an entire room that you use as his crate/safe space - so of course he sees it as "his" territory. Like some dogs get territorial over food or toys, or their bed, yours has become territorial over an entire room, because that's where you've encouraged him to go for peace and quiet.

You need to get DS and the dog to build up a relationship together. Get DS to come with you on walks, or to training classes together. Or get him to help with training at home - sit/down/paw/stay - and DS can give treats (doesn't have to be dog treats, ours goes nuts for cubes of ham or cheese, or bits of sausage). At the moment your dog sees DS as a threat to his time with you - I think they need some kind of relationship in their own right, even if they don't end up becoming best of friends.

DO NOT get you son to give the dog a treat from his hand if there is a resource guarding issue. I am not there in rl so do speak to your behaviourist again BUT what I would do in the meantime is get your DS to drop treats on the floor as he enters the "Dog room". This may side track your dog to allow your DS to enter the room without stressing the dog.

I would NOT be working on getting your son to build a better relationship with your dog UNLESS this is supervised but a qualified behaviourist. Putting pressure on both parties that may understandably be a little on edge is never a recipe for success.

Re your DH he needs to be aware to give the dog space when entering the room.

There are many options open to you but they would be hard to suggest without seeing the rl situation but things that could be done are introducing a crate to make the dog area smaller for the dog and freeing up the rest of the room.
Changing the dogs need to guard etc

Thanks for the replies
Ddog has had no issues at all for over 18 months and the last time he was aggressive he had just been neutered and unbeknown to us had a huge internal abscess. He growled at DH when he attempted to take a ball off him and I told DH to leave him and he did and then Ddog dropped the ball.
He is usually absolutely fine with DS and goes to him for attention. DS can feed, groom, play and walk him ( with supervision) .
We got Ddog after thinking about it for a long time. I had dogs previously ( same breed) and dd was desperate for one. We discussed it as a family and DS agreed we would get one. He found the bitey puppy stage had as we all did. He does like animals, it’s just that he doesn’t absolutely love them like dd does. If DS had been really opposed to getting a dog we wouldn’t have done it.
I will go back to the same behaviourist we spoke to last time, to be honest she said we were probably being over cautious as she didn’t think there was much of a problem but with a large dog and dc I wasn’t taking any chances. She observed us all with Ddog ( who was still a puppy then) and said that he was the least comfortable with DS but that they could and should have a good relationship- which as far as I was concerned they did. It’s only a very specific situation that makes Ddog growl at DS and then he does no more than a brief grumble before being ok. Once DS is in the room Ddog tries to sit on me but if we ignore him he just goes to bed

Is your dog nervous? How old was he when you got him? How much was he socialised as a pup?

You seem to be excusing guarding and territorial behaviour by referring to your dog as worried or anxious and needing a safe space.

In general, dogs don't generalise or do nuance. They follow explicit rules. Positive reinforcement is a control mechanism. You enforce rules using the techniques.

In my experience of 25 years of owning bolshy Dobermans who will constantly push boundaries, you have to be in charge of everything. They own nothing and have no control. All access to all rooms is mine, their food is mine and they can only eat it with my permission, their toys are mine and I can take them at any time, as are bones, pigs ears etc, I tell them when to go to bed and when to get up etc. This is taught from a young age using reward and positive reinforcement.

Changing this dynamic once issues have arisen is hard but not impossible and I would advise getting back in contact with a behaviourist.

He’s not nervous at all.
He came to us at 8 weeks and was well socialised with puppy classes recommended by our vet and then “teenager “ classes.
Occasional doggy daycare or holiday care but I WFH so he’s mostly with me.
He has doggy friends we walk with and now he’s older and neutered he has nice manners with other dogs.
He doesn’t really have many toys as it takes him literally 1 minute to shred a soft toy ( which he is happy to share). He has a tuggy thing which he brings to all of us to play, same with balls but he’s not especially toy focussed.
We have always used positive reward based training based on Pippa Mattisons book and 99% of the time he does as he’s told.

You really need to seek advice from a behaviourist. This could quickly escalate and result in your son being bitten. I'm in a similarish situation and we are having to change loads with our dog. I feel if you want to create a better relationship with dog to son it needs to not be in that room. My dog guards me on the sofa. Therefore is no longer allowed on it or near me when I am. I feel you may well need to completely change the room set up etc but seek trained advice. I'm a vet nurse and still struggling with issues but get expert advice before it gets worse, don't ignore what is happening. Do you do most things for the dog. Can you get other members of house to do things like fees him his dinner etc

Thank you
DH and dd do about the same amount of walking as I do. Dd brushes and plays with him most I would say but as ( outside School holidays) it’s me and Ddog at home most of the day I spend time with him. We do get DS to feed him sometimes
He’s very sociable though and doesn’t suffer from separation anxiety at all. He doesn’t chew or destroy anything if left, he’s actually pretty chilled.
DS has just said he went in the problem room - he’s 9, he forgot I told him not to - and Ddog didn’t growl BUT I wasn’t in there.
I will contact the behaviourist and see what she says

DH has just reminded me as well that if DS is upset about something and crying, for example if he’s hurt Ddog goes over to him and gives him his paw and nudges him and gives him lots of attention so I think they DO have a good relationship now - unless I’m reading that all wrong

I'd never let my dog assume any kind of dominance over anyone.
Surely your husband should've given him a serious telling off when he snapped.
Personally, I treat my dog like a queen but only because she knows who's boss.
If she ever showed any kind of aggression to me or anyone else she'd be getting some tough love.
Not hands on, but through vocal and a withdrawal of affection for a while.
They usually figure out what's acceptable and what's not as a result.

You are going to have to pull together as a family to resolve this. Your dog being fine with you and your DD is great but suggesting that because your DS isn’t that keen and doesn’t have the same relationship would imply he is the problem. I note you also mentioned him growling at your DH when he tried to remove a ball. Your dog is in the teenage phase and this is a challenge and you all need to be consistent in how you deal with him. My dog was a nightmare and a tough breed anyway. Would snap at my DC feet if we picked them up, nip at their ankles during the puppy phase, poor recall, hump everyone that walked in, was jealous of my new baby. Our problem was the lack of consistency, my OH was a nightmare and wouldn’t follow any of the guidance from trainers and confused the dog. I wasn’t going to tolerate guarding as I have 4 DC and won’t risk them being bitten. I put my foot down and we worked together, we were tough removed the dog from us if he snapped etc. Wasn’t allowed to simply to do what he wanted, no going up stairs unless invited or on the couch this helped remind him of where he sat within the pecking order and removed the dominance he had for the DC. I would get a good behaviourist in to help.

Thanks to everyone who replied, I’m taking it all on board but a few comments make me wonder if people are reading things properly .
Ddog is not and has never been allowed on the furniture or upstairs
When he snapped at DH foot he got a strong “no” and was instantly submissive. Any unacceptable behaviour is met with a sharp verbal reprimand.
Ddog and DS get on fine, it’s just not the mutual adoration him and dd have.
When he growled at DH over a ball he was very ill and in pain ( unknown to us) and ended up at the emergency vet that evening
I’m reiterating this simply because people are telling me to do things we already do very consistently .
He did display some of the puppy behaviour you describe Earth but training and neutering seemed to sort that out. Everyone who knows him says how lovely he is, the daycare people love him to bits as do friends and family. He is pretty well behaved and comes on UK holidays with us and into pubs, restaurants etc with no issues at all and is everyone’s friend like a typical Goldie.
It’s just this one situation that makes him growl, I will be changing things so the trigger is removed but I want to make sure it doesn’t just transfer to something else.

@Earthmover and @Hairymorag I'm afraid ideas around "dominance", "pack leadership", "pecking orders" and "alpha males" etc etc are about 20 years out of date and are thoroughly unhelpful. Sadly there are still some trainers and behaviourists who are peddling it.

This is a good article which explains it www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die (bit sciencey)
www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/why-not-dominance.php (bit more bite sized)

That’s not actually true Avocado. I agree there are many different views about how to deal with a guarding dog and we can all pull off some research to prove our point. The OP needs to find a way that works for her situation.

Just to prove my point

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0133978

Call it what you like avocado's but for me it's called common sense and day to day living and assessment.
The fine tune dial is self explanatory and anyone with a decent helping of common sense knows how to mould there dogs into well behaved family additions.
If they resist these simple techniques when applied consistently then I'd suggest the dog has aggression issues and a family home where kids reside is not worth the risk.
I certainly wouldn't home a dog if I thought it still had the potential to bare its teeth at anyone within the home after the first couple of months.

OP there has been some ridiculous advice given on this thread and also I believe a blowing out of proportion of the situation you described in your original thread.

All you have to do is to change your dog's emotion in the one room. I do not believe he is guarding you but does feel that this is his space. So as mentioned before, for a few days either you or your son drop treats on the floor as you enter the "dog room"

No need to dominate, put in his place, evaluate the relationship between your son and the dog.

Just simply take the pressure off the dog when people enter his space. I am sure in a few days this will then be sorted. If this does not sort it I would get professional advice in RL as you can see from threads like this you get some dangerous or anecdotal advice - I before science!

However as your dog did react when in pain before, as most dogs would, do you think he may need to quick check at the vets.

Good luck and enjoy your lovely Goldie with your family