What dog wpuld you recommend for us

[triangulator]

Hi!

We have always always wanted a dog but until now have not been in the right position to have one (we were working full time in the city and having our DCs).

We have two boys almost 4 and 7 months old. I work 3 days a week and my DH works 4. There are 2 days a week when neither of us are at home between the hours of 8-5. It would be tricky to commit to coming home at lunchtime so I assume we would need to factor in a dog walker for these two days. Am also assuming some dogs will be fine with this, others, less so.

We live in a small town and our weekends are usually spent visiting family rurally, going to parks or walking in the woods. Our boys have a lot of energy and are quite lively.

We have never had a dog ourselves, only cats. However we spend 6 weeks dogsitting a friend's German Shepard a few years ago. This was pre DC but we loved it. She was the best dog ever and I really enjoyed having her around. I loved the lifestyle and the companionship she gave.

I personally would love a German Shepard but I'm not sure we have the space. We have a decent sized 4 bed semi but a fairly small garden.

What other breeds could work well for us? We would rather have a medium/large sized dog, neither DH or I like smaller dogs as they always seem quite jumpy and barky. The GS we cared for rarely barked and only jumped up whilst playing.

Are there any other things we should consider at the moment?

We are not planning on doing anything that soon, perhaps in a year or so once we can teach DS2 how to behave around a new dog - he'd just want to grab it all the time at the moment and that would be stressful for everyone!

Honestly...I wouldn't. Puppies are very, very needy and it would be extremely hard to leave one alone for two days even with a walker.

Then you're left with adult rescues and with such small children this is not allowed...dog rescues are notoriously fussy about this as you just don't know the dog's full history so they're concerned children would be at risk.

You'd be far more realistic to wait until the youngest is at least 7 and then consider a rescue. Most rescues we looked at said "no children under 7"

I know you think your youngest can be taught not to grab but even much older children aren't fully trustworthy and children of 5 or 6 will lunge or be too rough.

How about a young adult lurcher? Lots of fun energy, loads in rescue.

EGLR are a rescue that don't have blanket restrictions on childrens ages

A labrador would be ideal OP. Such lovely, family dogs, though I'm a Show Cocker spaniel person... I would use the Kennel Club Find a Breed tool to help you decide.

You won't be able to leave any dog alone between 8-5, especially not a puppy. They will need to go into daycare which you'll need to line up in advance as the good ones get booked up really quickly. Puppies especially need taking to the toilet every 30 minutes when awake, after all naps, meals, drinks and play/training sessions - they're very time-consuming!

There is also no guarantee that older dogs will be happy on their own - even with a dog-walker coming in at lunchtime, 8-5 is a long time for them to be alone in the house with no company.

You also need to consider that puppies can't walk far - the general rule is 5 minutes per month of age from 3 months old (once they've had their jabs) and it's really not far. 15 minutes doesn't get you very far at all, so you won't be able to take it walking in the woods or to the park for hours until it's about a year or so.

And you need to think of the impact a dog will have on your lives. Do you live in a dog-friendly area? When you go out for the day, what will you do with the dog? You're only supposed to leave them for four hours a day - so things like a cinema and a meal would be too long to leave the dog unattended. If you wanted to do a day-trip, you'd need to either take the dog or arrange care for it. We're very fortunate to live in the Lake District where most places let you take the dog - we have dog friendly shops, cafes, beaches, restaurants and parks, but lots of places aren't so tolerant.

Places like theme parks won't allow you to take the dog, lots of beaches are not dog-friendly during the summer months and you'll need to be around to supervise the dog and the children at all times, you can't leave them alone even for a minute.

I don't mean to sound lecture-y but so many people don't realise the impact of having a dog. We both work and our puppy goes to daycare. He loves it but it's an extra expense to factor in, and not all dogs enjoy going to daycare. All our local beaches/woodlands are dog-friendly as are all the shops and cafes (aside from supermarkets) so we can take him out wherever we go for the day.

If you're sure you can handle all of that with small children, then you can consider breeds and what you want from them - high/low energy, big/small, do they shed, what kind of grooming are you prepared to do, how much time can you devote to twice daily walks for the next 12+ years, etc.

Oh I love lurchers! I had forgotten about them.

Ajas thanks for your input, I will definitely be taking all advice into consideration. Waiting for the right time is definitely an option. That said, I do know lots of people who have had ypung kids with puppies. I teach so we could time getting the puppy with my long 8 week summer break so it would have a block of time to get settled.

Twitter I love Labradors but I understand they have lots of health problems? I've also walked a few who have been quite jumpy and very strong! I have struggled to control them in a way I didn't struggle with the GS.

We got a puppy when our youngest was 7 and it was still a lot of work and I work from home so he was never alone.

Are you happy to consider daycare for the times you'll be out of the house all day? Please don't consider getting a dog if you're going to leave it alone all day long - even two days is a week is too much. Dogs shouldn't be left for any longer than about 4 hours a day - and that's in total, not in a row. Eight hours in the house with just one hour "break" is far, far too much.

adaline not lecturey at all. Really helpful. I appreciate that a dog is a huge commitment so it is good to know exactly what this entails.

Luckily we do live in a dog friendly area. Lots of people on our street have dogs. We don't tend to go out much to places like theme parks and if we do pop out into town it's only for 2-3 hours every so often. Most places we frequent are dog friendly. If we go out for the day, generally it's to NT places or to places like farm parks and small towns. Lots of dogs around.

Having to watch the dog with the children all the time is something I am very aware of.

Keep the advice and considerations coming, we definitely need to know all the info we can! :)

We had a German shepherd, she was lovely and amazing with the kids! Our garden wasn't massive, enough to throw a ball - intact when we first got her we lived in a first floor maisonette which you had to go downstairs to the garden, but we had a park at the end of our road which she loved!

We now have a husky who is amazing, but she can't be let off the lead which can be a pain.

Labradors are what everyone calls a starter dog but tbh I can't stand them!

I think as long as you can offer good walks and lots of cuddles most dogs would be fine but the key is really to get some good training in place and be firm to establish boundaries, our German shepherd was there before the children however our husky grew up with the kids and as a result is the soppiest gentle thing and is really very chilled.

Yes, daycare/walking I wasn't sure what it would need, but if daycare is whats needed then we would 100% factor it in.

The main reason we haven't considered a dog before is just because we have been working full time. Now that 5/7 days a week we are at home, it seems a least more feasible than before!

I went through something which is quite common with new dog owners OP....regret! He was so tricky in the early months that I seriously thought I'd made a massive mistake and wondered how to get out of it!

Only briefly but it was that full-on and I LOVE animals. All animals.

Fortunately I got over it as he became better behaved but it really is far more difficult than many people realise.

Puppies bite things, chew things, mouth your hands, jump up, bark, chew books and shoes when you're not looking, they try to eat things which might kill them...

Thank God mine's turned out to be a good boy and a dear friend. He's so gorgeous but you really do feel like you've got a toddler in the house for quite a while.

Oh that's good, I'm glad I didn't come across like that!

I love ours (he's five months old) but our world was turned upside down when we brought him home. He has separation anxiety (a breed prone to it unfortunately) so we can't leave him alone or he cries and gets distressed. So we have to plan our lives around him.

We both work - but I work weekends with days off in the week (DP works Mon-Fri) so he only goes to daycare on the three days our shifts overlap. I I drop him off in the morning then go on to work, DP collects him and brings him home. He gets one walk at daycare and then one of us takes him out in the evening too. Another issue for us is that DP's hobby takes him out of the house for a couple of hours at a time, so he has to either wait until I'm home, arrange for him to stay late at daycare or see if his parents will watch the dog for a bit. Of course this impacts on our time as a couple as before we got the pup, he could just go out before I got in from work.

He needs constant supervision in the house - he's only well-behaved when he's asleep! He is trained to listen to commands but that doesn't stop him trying to steal food, open the cupboards, chase the cats, chew the furniture and generally cause mayhem! He's hard work (all puppies are) but he's improving everyday and when I see my mum every fortnight or so (with pup in tow!) she comments on how much he's improved and how good is behaviour is.

They're well worth the stress and hard work. And please book training classes (positive reinforcement ones, not ones promoting pack theory).

Yes the next thing to research is training. Am hyper aware the GS we looked after was a total delight partly because she was impeccably trained by a family who have had GS for years....

I'd also consider that at 7 months your youngest is about to get very mobile and very handsy and into everything. I had my dogs before I had my child and I have to be on top of everything all the time. Once I've finished with mummy duty I've got to walk and train them. Toddlers grab at things, screech, run around. And my dogs are very well trained (I compete with them and work at a dog training school so I'm not a dog novice) but there are never guarantees.

If you do this. It will be very hard work. I have my parents come to mine to look after my dogs when I'm at work. At weekends I can't just take my little boy anywhere I fancy because I have to factor in my other hairy dependents.

If you really are set on this then a well bred Labrador or golden retriever would work. Equally I love a lurcher. Never met one that wasn't gentle.

I do not recommend a shepherd for your situation unless you intend to train it and give it mental stimulation and exercise. They are intelligent guarding breeds and we see a lot of behaviour GSDs at the moment. Possibly because people are not giving them the attention they need.

Honestly I am pro dogs. In fact my life is very wrapped up with them. But my life would be easier and less stressful without them right now.

I wouldn't get a pup. Even with daycare (which can vary hugely in how good it is.)
Puppies chew. They need toilet training. They need pretty much constant supervision. They don't often sleep all night. They need training to walk on a lead etc.
and of course an unvaccinated pup can't go to daycare.
An older dog may cope with just a dog walker but you don't know until you try. My dog wouldn't cope at all with being left all day.
If you're after a specific breed it might be worth a trip to Discover Dogs to learn about different breeds.
If you're after a rescue be aware there are breed specific rescues and also some foster. This means they have a better idea of the nature and needs of the dog.

The thing also with training is you need to do more than your basic six-weeks of puppy classes. Ours is just coming to the end of his beginners class and he's already booked into the intermediate class. But on top of that we do homework everyday - training for five minutes whenever we have the chance - while the kettle boils, before we leave for work, during an ad-break. Too many people just do the puppy classes and don't bother with the rest - fatal mistake!

But I really think you need to wait until your youngest is at least at primary school age. A toddler and an untrained puppy is a bad combination. Both are unpredictable, but puppies bite and mouth and it bloody hurts. They also jump up, chase, bark, chew things and can be surprisingly strong (especially in comparison to a small child).

We waited until youngest child was 6 and I'm glad I did. And YY to training. Mine will soon be two and I'm starting to think about stopping obedience training. We are now working on good citizen. Everyday we work on some skill or other. How I want her getting out of the car or leave or recall.

Just to flag that I suspect German Sheps have as many (if not more) health issues as Labs. I've had to do some research into various health issues for dogs and I've lost track of how many times I've read something along the lines of "many breeds can be affected by this but it is more common among Golden Retrievers, Boxers and German Shepherds". Other breeds are mentioned, depending on the issue, but those three seem to be a constant.

Just worth being on guard for this and taking a lot of time to research the breed and breeders, if you go down the puppy route.

Sad though I am, it does sound like it would be wise to wait another year or so more than we had initially thought. Waiting until the youngest is toilet trained and in preschool at the very least.

But can do lots of research in the mean time and talk to my friends who have dogs, find good trainers etc.

Interesting about GS and health issues. I really would love one but I can just sense it wouldn't be the right dog for us.

That said, we may move more rurally in the next few years and then we would be more suited to a GS.

I was on a waiting list for more than two years. Research breeds and start to get prepared!

I have a lovely Goldie who we've had for 9 years. He was very hard work in the first two years, and I wouldn't have trusted him with a child at first... he was just too big and bouncy to be around small people! My toddler is 2, and they both adore each other (well, DC adores dog more than the other way round, not sure the dog has forgiven me for bringing home the small hairless puppy yet ) but in all honestly, it's hard work. If I'd known how tough it would be having a dog, a toddler and working ft (even though I also work in education so have the holidays off), I would have waited until after dc were much older to get a dog!

You can check breeds for genetic health problems and levels of inbreeding on this website www.dogbreedhealth.com/list-of-dog-breeds/

Another good way to assess health risks is to get an online quote from a pet insurance company and compare it to a quote for a mixed breed dog of similar size/age.

DanielCraigsUnderpants has some great advice above. Perhaps best to borrow friends’ dogs for now and research breeds. That said, ourr dog (lab/cocker) is only 3 months older than our toddler. Young kids and pups can work if you are prepared to put a lot of time in and know you’ll have access to suitable doggy daycare the two days you are not home. And know you’ll be this available for the dog for a decade or more. Our dog is never alone with toddler now and when she was little her bouncer was on a side table to give an idea of adaptation needed. We already had a 12 year old lab so we knew what we were in for and deliberately chose to coincide the two so I could do training while on maternity leave. OH had early starts so when I went back to work they were never more than 3h alone. Cockers are not known for their steady, mellow side and he has knocked her down when rushing to get a ball but otherwise meticulous training has resulted in a suprisingly safe dog. She can offer him some kibble or his ball in her hand and he knows not to take it for e.g. and he jumps up on nobody, for any reason.

Two of my work colleagues have Cockapoos .. they are adorable .. not too big .. with lovely natures.