Getting a dog continued

[boffin9207]

Hello!

I posted recently asking for some advice on getting a rescue dog and you were very helpful. Having thought about it some more, we decided to take the plunge.

DP and I went to our local rescue and didn’t have a very positive experience. We filled in a questionnaire and had a chat with a member of staff there. We explained our set up - both work, one of us can take the dog to work if need be or can wfh, one of us does wfh regularly and a family member is nearby also to do one day a week. Any time we wouldn’t be around (2/3 days a week) we would arrange for dog care. We explained we had looked into this but obviously wouldn’t make firm plans until knew we were getting a dog but some local places do drop offs at the end of the day and explained the dog would be alone no more than two hours max based on this. The member of staff at the centre didn’t seem to listen to the fact we would get a dog sitter / doggy day care and kept going on about how many hours the dog would be alone for and repeatedly told us to get a greyhound as they can be left for longer periods of time. I like them but DP doesn’t and would prefer a dog thats a bit more “cuddly”.

It has now left us in a bit of a conundrum. We have a few other rescues that we can visit but alternatively are now contemplating a puppy. I would be keen to hear other people’s experiences as we try and decide what to do going forward.

It's hard. Really hard. I wanted a wolfhound. Hence my name! I went to shows. I talked to owners and breeders. My first point of contact was the secretary of the breed club. They also keep lists of puppies available and know who is likely to breed next. It's a small world. My aim wasn't to buy a Crufts champion but rather a healthy puppy from parents who had a good life and weren't stuck in a puppy mill.
TBH I love her to bits but I found the puppy stage VERY hard. Have a look at the puppy survival stage thread if it's still running. You can't leave a new pup at all. I couldn't even shower without someone watching her to start with. They chew everything and toilet training took an age for us. I lacked sleep and being in the garden in the depths of winter with a dressing gown, wellies and torch hoping for a wee and some more sleep was exhausting!!

Just want to second looking at the puppy survival threads on here as Wolfie mentioned and make sure your DH also knows how hard it can be. Whilst you will always find someone who had the 'easy' puppy it doesn't really help if you get the hard one and from the threads getting a hard one isn't that unusual. I found puppy months tough just the same as Wolfie mentioned and working make it doubly hard. Working at home when you are toilet training a puppy, trying to stop it biting you or demanding attention or stopping it swinging from the blinds when you need to take a call or deliver work is not fun. Fortunately I could work around that by working late into the night but then I was completely shattered.

Was it worth it? absolutely
Would I do it again (puppy)? right now the answer is no and mine is coming up for 2 years old in a couple of months

With puppy breeders if you search in doghouse you will find it is very controversial. I took a middle approach in that I was happy to buy from a breeder that did the dna checks I wanted from the parents. However, they owned both mum and dad and didn't breed to get a new show dog etc which some view as still a poor breeder. My advice would be research all the tricks of the trade, all the health checks (these are not just a vet check) for the breed you want. Speak to a few breeders and be prepared to walk away. It's very hard when you do go to a place that is obviously churning out puppies not to feel sorry for them and 'rescue' one (I went to a couple that I didn't buy from in the early days as it was apparent it was either a commercial adventure with lots of puppies or that it was a hobby breeder who hadn't even heard of the most common genetic conditions that the breed could get).

The puppy survival thread is truly enough to make me happy I have my tricky rescue dog and not a puppy!

I echo what Wolfie and Bitey have said - excellent advice (as usual!).

In terms of book recommendations, I really love Pippa Mattinson's Happy Puppy Handbook which I found to be full of common sense advice, starting from before you get the puppy. I know lots of people also recommend Gwen Bailey's Perfect Puppy.

I found my breeder by:

• using the KC assured list to get a starting point
• sending a speculative email to everyone on it within a reasonable distance range, giving them some details about me, why I chose the breed (springer) and asking them to consider me if they were planning a litter
• using the internet to research all those that replied, basically just looking for online conformation of their line etc. or any red flags
• when a couple confirmed their dogs were pregnant I then visited the one I felt most likely to be a good one and talked to her for a good couple of hours about her dogs, experience, tests, health problems in the line, temperaments; she questioned me on experience, choice of breed, how the dog would be cared for, including checking I had plans in place for the unexpected. She matched her puppies to owners so talked to me about my preferences so she could take them into account: boy/girl, colouring, character. This is really the stage when you are finding out if they are a breeder you feel comfortable buying from, which is why is helps to do it before there are cute puppies wriggling around. Helps you think straight.
• that went well so after puppies were born I went again to see them as a group and see them interacting with mum
• following that visit we both confirmed we were happy for me to have a puppy and I paid the deposit

From sending the original email to getting a puppy was about 6/7 months, I think. Springers are a common breed (albeit, I wanted a show type so they are rarer) which made it easier and quicker for me.

Thank you so much. Your responses have been really helpful. I will order those books later. If we do this, I think we need to be as informed as possible. I have skimmed the puppy survival thread but will read it properly later.

The key thing is to make sure you and your DH are both prepared for a puppy. I don't want to make assumptions but from threads on here it does seem like a lot of family members simply check out when the work gets too hard with a puppy so you don't want to be the one having to do everything. Bit different in my case as I work at home a lot, it was mostly my decision and thus it was agreed beforehand that I would do most of the donkey work at first but equally everyone has to agree on training and the impact it can have on social and family life until they grow up.

I do wonder if in 12+ years time when I have to say goodbye to my dog whether I will have forgotten how hard it was and get another puppy

Boffin, our timeline from realising that we were certain on getting a dog was 2 months to choose the breed/puppy/adult/rescue conundrum and then another 6 before we found a litter that would work for us timing wise plus were with a good breeder. We travelled 3.5 hrs to visit ours (less common breed) and it was very clear straight away that the breeder loved the breed, owned mum, uncle and had owned gma etc and had bred with a dog owned by a Crufts judge friend with a breed champion. Nice looking but also went for temperament. We had no choice by the time we went down there but as it happens, they had a v large, v chilled boy pup and he was perfect for us.

If you get a puppy make sure you have arrangements of how to care for it eg they will really struggle to be left for the initial period for more than an hour, equally if your working from home it is likely to take a majority of your attention (dont expect to get much done!). In the early puppy stages eg under 6 months then i wouldn't recommend taking to work with you as they will struggle to behave. Check what age your day care allows but id argue full time day care will be too stimulating for a puppy that age and would play havoc with training

You could try a breed specific rescue? I haven't done this, but I believe many of them have dogs in foster rather than kennels and cover most of the country.

Bitey - I know what you mean. I don’t want to end up in a position where it’s just me doing it all. It should be as fair a split as possible. Annual leave for settling time would be split fairly but DP would be the one around more. Really, it’s him pushing for this and his job affords greater working from home flexibility and he is home earlier than me.

Bigfathairy - yes I can see how that would work. From what I have read that seems realistic time frame wise. DP seems to think we can get one sooner but tbh I think I’ve been the one doing more research.

Fallofrain - I wouldn’t take pup into work with me at a young age. I would probably have more flexibility to work from home but I also don’t want to take the mick with it.

Glitter - I have. I was told they had a long waiting list and to try elsewhere.

Right, lovely knowledgeable MNetters - today I contacted some KC assured breeders. I figured this might be a starting point in all of this. I wanted to find out if they had any litters planned in the future and if so when. I have had a reply from one saying that they don’t have any but they know of a litter which have 2 pups ready to go in about a week. 1) this is way too soon for us and 2) this is ringing alarm bells. I thought good breeders had waiting lists? I’ve been asked if I want more info, but if a breeder mentions this to me, what do I do?

Ps - books ordered and trawling through the puppy survival thread now!

Don't feel rushed into getting a puppy if you need more time. I met a lovely one which I would have bought but declined because I didn't feel quite ready as we hadn't fully sorted out everything at home so ended up waiting another 6 months.

What breed are you looking for?

Depends on the breed with waiting lists. Some do and some don't.
This does seem rather soon for you. Don't feel pressured. There will be other pups.
I would start with the breed club. Scope out different breeders and get to know some names.
I got my girl at pretty short notice but that was because the breeder had homes lined up and then (in discussion with potential owners) one didn't quite work out.

Thanks both. I was going to look at the breed clubs next following your earlier advice, Wolfie. To be honest, I hadn’t expected a response like that and it just feels too soon. I’m going to tell DP no. We have stuff to do to the house which yes, could be done quickly but it’s quite short notice get holiday sorted and everything else. I feel like more research is needed.

Re breeds - if rescue we have a fairly open mind but for a puppy we are looking for a lab.

Working or show lines? They are very different!! Read up on what health tests should be done. Hips and what else?

I would say you need to have a minimum time of a month to settle puppy if you both work full time - unless you can alternatively take half days off. During that time you will need to start leaving your puppy for short periods and build up to longer periods. You may need to have a back up plan if your dog won't be left - or if he/she doesn't like being around other dogs - mostly these things can be overcome but take longer than you expect.

Wolfie - working rather than show. From what I have read working are “easier” to train and have a better temperament to show dogs. I’ve got a list of the health checks including the hips and other things I can’t spell 😂 might have to get a notebook to keep all the info in.

DP and I talked last night after my last post and realistically we wouldn’t be ready for a pup until after October this year at the earliest.

I have a working cocker spaniel rather than a show one. Everyone says that they are more energetic than show ones but I haven't seen any evidence of that and mine is pretty chilled for a spaniel .

What I did find is that if you give them a job such a hunting or retrieving they are in their element and would prefer that to a long boring in their eyes walk. You might find that is the same with a working lab as I used to see lots of them at our gun dog training classes.

Working strains are completely different to show lines. They are MUCH more energetic. Think Duracell bunny! They need physical and mental stimulation or they will drive you bonkers! Don't know about better temperament. I'm not sure there will be a breed group for working lines.

Not sure about labs but working spaniels don't need lots of physical exercise.

In fact the gun dog trainers who own and train spaniels say that all you do if you exercise a spaniel lots by walking is make them fitter and that is something I fell into initially. So exercising lots which everyone tells you a working breed needs doesn't tire them out so you get into a cycle of walking more and more. They do need physical exercise of course but not more than any other dog but what they really want is to work so hunt (mostly) with a bit of retrieve. Think labs might be opposite so perhaps more retrieve and hunt.

working rather than show. From what I have read working are “easier” to train and have a better temperament to show dogs
Temperament is individual and not connected to whether a dog is the ‘show’ or ‘working’ type. I’ve had both kinds, and at the same time, and the mental and physical exercise needs of the working dog are way way above that of show type. The two barrel shaped show labs I had were perfectly trainable and loved a sniff and a walk but beyond that were happy chilling and having a good brush and tummy rub. My working boy, however, from day one has always wanted/needed more of everything. Eg If I walk him six miles he’ll want ten, if he plays two games of find the biscuit he’ll want two more etc etc. It’s been constant (he’s adorable and worth it) if he didn’t get enough physical and mental stimulation he would quickly become depressed. My DDs have even trained him to follow all kinds of commands, and moved on to hand signals I/o voice to make it a bit different and even started attempting BGT style dog ‘dancing’. We’ve got a huge garden which is lucky because we set up an agility course for him. I work from home if/when I work and I know I could not have worked out if the home with this dog, dog walking and daycare would not have cut it. I’m not trying to put you of but ‘working’ dogs do not always transfer well to ‘pet’ dogs unless you have a lot of time to put in to them (doubly so for eg border collies). I’ve just started fostering two more Labs, one girl ‘show’ and one boy ‘working’ and they are shaping up to be the same as my other dogs. Girl is chilled and soft as butter and the boy is just like my own boy, constantly on the go and needing a job. Adorable but exhausting.

My advice would be get a working dog but take it to gun dog trainers for training. They know exactly how to exercise and train the dog to provide all the right stimulation.

Good luck OP.

We got a rescue mutt puppy from rescue dogs for life. They did a home check and we picked her up at 10 weeks. She’s a mix of lab/collie/whippet (we think) and the most wonderful, happy, loving, gentle dog. She is high energy though and hated being left for a good year. She’s fine now but we still wouldnt leave her all day long. We fortunately have good friends who love the dog and take her for walks for us/care for her over a weekend etc.

I do appreciate that temperament varies depending on the individual - much like humans!

I am happy to take on board advice but from what I have read on lab sites and lab forums over the last few days I got the impression a working dog with the right training would be a good fit. They are supposedly easier to train as they are bred for it and yes they are more energetic but DP and I are both young and quite active. I am happy to have to mentally stimulate also. More research to be had at lunchtime.