Tips on crates with new puppy

[spencerreidswife]

So we brought our 12 week old puppy home a week ago. She's been in a crate at night from day one. 1st 2 nights she whimpered a little for about 10 mins in middle of night. Next couple of nights quiet all night- now we're at the stage where she cries as soon as she goes in & becomes very distressed & howling.
Any ideas on how to help her settle in there at night?

Where is the crate at night? Are you taking her out in the middle of the night to go to the loo? Also, have you done any work to help her associate the crate with nice things, rather than just being shut away? Is the crate well bedded and covered to make the pup feel secure?
Mine, when a pup, slept in the bedroom (in a crate), this meant she never felt the need to cry because she had company, and also, when she got restless (which was usually after about four hours) I could take her outside for a pee. Dogs have to be trained to use a crate, or they will just see it as a prison.

What Lucisky said - work on building positive association with the crate throughout the daytime. We used to feed our pup in his (with the door open), as well as throwing treats in it and putting new, exciting toys inside for him to discover during the day. We also put comforters in there for night time - a tshirt that smelled like us, and a blanket that smelled like his mum.

Basically, you just aim to make the crate a source of all the good things in her life. Give her loads of praise any time she goes into it voluntarily as well.

Oh and we did separation training in the crate many many many times a day, every single day from when he was tiny. We used the method recommended by Pippa Mattinson in The Happy Puppy Handbook - worked a treat so he started to understand the crate was his refuge and that if he was shut in, he would get let out by being quiet.

It takes time and dedication but once they're crate-trained it's a godsend!

Sorry to crash the thread but just wondering howe separation training in the crate work? Our pup (13 weeks) will sleep from 11-5am in the crate. He has his meals in the crate and also goes in for a sleep in the day - we usually have to pop some foody treats in there to encourage him - but he doesn't use it otherwise.

We are with him all the time when he's awake so I am aware we may need to look to do some separation training. He is happy enough when in the garden and we pop back in to the kitchen (we can still see him) but he barks if left in the kitchen and we pop into another room.

@inappropriate - we used Pippa Mattinson’s technique. Get a clicker and some treats. Send pup into the crate and shut the door. Click and treat then leave the room and shut the door behind you. Start with just a few seconds. If they whimper/bark, wait for a break in the noise (even a brief one), click that quiet moment then immediately go into the room and give pup a treat. Go straight back out again, shut the door and repeat. Do it about 20 times then let them out and make a fuss and play. Repeat the exercise throughout the day and over a few weeks, build up the time that you’re out of the room.

He doesn’t actually go in his crate while we’re out, it was just to teach him to be quiet in the mornings before we get up, as his crate is in our bedroom. He gets shut in the kitchen when we go out, so we did exactly the same training with that as well, and built up from a few seconds. He’ll now happily settle in the kitchen alone for several hours and he never wakes us up from his crate.

It does take a long time and a lot of commitment to training, but it really worked for us and meant that he never even got close to becoming an anxious dog because he knew we’d always come back. Once you’ve built up from a few seconds to 20mins or so you can start to increase in much bigger intervals, so 20mins to 40mins to an hour and then after they’re happy with an hour it’s usually only limited by how long they can hold their bladder.

I'm fairly new to dogs, so I don't understand why on earth would you want to shut a dog away in a crate? I got my dog at 12 weeks old and she's always slept on our bed. If we go out during the day we leave her in the kitchen with the back door open to the garden.

@single - in the wild, dogs create an enclosed ‘den’ as a safe space to sleep so the idea of the crate is to recreate that idea. It sounds awful to us but they really do come to use it as a refuge if you make it a safe space for them! We only ever shut ours in at night time - the rest of the time the door is open so he can come and go as he pleases but he’ll take himself in there if he wants to chill out or if he’s got a really good treat that he wants to keep to himself!

We actually recently tried to phase the crate out because it’s so damn big and ugly, so we started leaving the door open at night and it made him really anxious! He wouldn’t settle, kept whining and running around and nudging us and generally worrying! As soon as we shut him in again he lay down and went right to sleep. So I guess we’re stuck with it!

Oh and it also massively helps with toilet training at the beginning because they try really hard not to mess where they sleep, so you can use that to your advantage in the early days.

If we go out during the day we leave her in the kitchen with the back door open to the garden.

Singlenotsingle Isn't that a burglary risk leaving the back door open?

The crate used correctly is often viewed as a safe 'den' by the dog.

Thanks Biteyshark, I suppose it is a burglary risk but we've got a 6ft fence round the garden and nothing worth stealing anyway!

Singlenotsingle don't want to derail the thread but it's often the stuff burglars damage looking for anything worth stealing that's the worst part (they will go through underwear, tip out draws, boxes of cereals etc looking for where you might have hidden anything).

I'm just relying in the fact that there are 4 adults living here (3m, 1f) with 3 cars, a van and a caravan parked on our drive! And a barky dog!

@Singlenotsingle nothing worth stealing not even the dog? Or just someone coming into your house wrecking it and hurting your dog badly or worse?

OP Ours is crated and takes himself to bed at night he is 14 weeks. Not as keen during the day but we can't leave him in the kitchen yet as he would probably wee and walk it all over. We plan to though when he is older and can be trusted we put some worn clothes in with him and it settled him right down as he could smell us. He manages from 10am -7/ 7.30pm without a wee.

single totally agree with what you're doing: calling something a 'detention facility' doesn't mean it's not a 'prison', calling a cage a crate similarly. There is an excellent article on PETA website which outlines the way in which crates are detrimental to health and well-being of dogs as well as how they hinder the development of bonding with humans
www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/crating-dogs/

Fascinated by 'in the wild' defence, dogs in the wild wandered, they were allowed to mouth and bite, they were not leash trained, castrated or spayed and so on. They are also highly social animals they would not be locked in a den alone, nor would their den not be open so that they could leave to feed, eliminate etc

It's interesting how we support a great deal of practices that are nothing to do with how dogs may or may not have lived 'in the wild', but choose to resurrect the claim to nature as a defence when it's convenient.

Haha Peta are not really the ones to listen to as they say we should not have any animals as pets as they should not be domesticated at all

Dogs that are crate trained love their crates, every time we have a new foster of puppy all my dogs try to cram into the crate.

It makes travelling safer, it makes being away from home less stressful,it makes any hospital stays less stressful for the dogs.

Humans have a habit of abusing anything think of chokes chains versus harnesses BUT correct use of a crate is a benefit for most dogs.

Susan Garret crate games is an excellent resource to help with crate training.

Massive eye roll at that PETA article. Doesn’t even attempt to acknowledge proper use of the crate, only chooses to focus on the ways in which the crate can be abused as if that’s the only way anyone is ever using them.

Decent trainers and advocates of using crates are very clear about never using it punitively, only creating positive associations for the dog, not leaving them crated for extended periods of time, using it to help toilet train at night time by - and this is the crucial point that has been missed - teaching them to signal that they need to toilet and then letting them out when they need to go!!

But then again it’s hardly surprising. PETA are well known for resorting to emotive and inaccurate statements rather than actual balanced criticism.

Gwen Bailey ‘The perfect puppy’ or something similar said to have the crate in your room (actually she said basket or box but dpup was used to a crate - but with mum and sisters)

We did that for a week or so and just kinda mumbled at her when she stirred
I must admit that toileting didn’t occur to us ☺️ But to be fair it was decking cold and snowing so we wouldn’t and weren’t puttin her outside

Gradually moved her further away and now she sleeps in lounge. Blanket pulled down over crate. Lounge door shut. Dining room door ajar.

She’s 8 months and a few people (including our holiday care) have asked when we’ll stop using the crate
Don’t think we will as she just kinda goes to bed and sleeps all night lol
When I open the lounge door she lifts her head and I come round the long way. SHe’s not even stood up lol so she’s super happy to be in there

Unless she goes in it when I’m at work then she doesn’t go in itvat all. She has a basket on the sofa and one outside and snoozes on them in the day

She’s aslee on a mound of fake sheepskin in her sofa basket right now. God I love her

Vallahal (if we ignore the 'haha' not the most convincing start to a counter-argument) given the overwhelming number of dogs who are abused and abandoned, and end up in shelters because of that, there is a lot to be said for PETA's stance, in addition there are a number of anthrozoologists and other experts who are increasingly questioning the ethics of pet keeping.

However putting that aside the 'in the wild' argument does not stand as a final defence/fact, since evidence suggests that dogs evolved alongside humans.

If you do or do not decide to crate your dog that is - in this country there are others where crates are banned - your decision but I don't think it's unreasonable to point out that there are a number of strong arguments against their use. In other words it's controversial not simply the 'right' thing to do. I'm sure that Susan Garret, whoever she may be, may support it, as Cesar Milan promoted choke chains, doesn't mean she's the last word on the subject. It's a contested area.
However, if you are so certain that you are right then why the need for the defensive reply?

In the ‘wild’ in a den the ‘dog’ is not actually shut in though is it , if it fancies a wander or a pee it can just get up and walk out . That said I’m very anti using ‘in the wild’ as a reason for doing anything . I’m sure crates used correctly are fine but sadly they are abused by many dog owners in this country .

I think I'll stick with doing it my way. And yes QOD, it's surprising how much we love our dogs. I couldn't bear to leave mine in a crate downstairs at night. Pic attached of little cutie.

What country are crates banned? -not really a solid argument as they also eat dogs in China

I am not being defensive at all . I have nothing to defend.

I like my Haha sorry if it offended you I was not going for a counter argument - I am not arguing

@Floral - that’s true of crates as it’s true of absolutely every aspect of pet ownership, sadly. Animals are abused in myriad ways, even by well-meaning people who simply don’t do their research or seek the right advice, or use the right techniques and equipment, who are misguided by bad advice and bad trainers, or even who just anthropomorphise their pets to the extent that they end up badly adjusted. Crates are no more a source of suffering than any other innocuous tool used inappropriately, but equally, even properly used, they’re not the right thing for every dog. Just like humans, there’s no one-size-fits-all approach for pups and I think anyone suggesting otherwise should be treated with suspicion, no matter which side of the crate debate they sit!

True , but the popularity of crates has led to people who previously would have either not got a pup or would have rehomed it quickly after it chewed or made a mess whilst they were at work to keep it locked in a small space for hours on end with little or no inconvenience to themselves . It makes dog ownership as easy and convenient as having any other caged animal . As I said used properly I’m sure they have their place but for me they are too likely to be abused .

Yes agreed, they are all too often used as a tool for poor and lazy ownership that induces suffering for the dog. But again, the real problem there is on the part of the human mis-using a tool that is intended to create a positive experience for the dog, not for the owner. I guess my real problem with the crate debate is the argument that the crate in and of itself is inherently cruel, just like, for example, choke chains. That simply isn’t true because something like a choke chain has a purely punitive use and cannot be used positively to create a good experience for the dog. I think instead of simplistic ‘crates are good/bad’ arguments, what needs to happen is more discussion and promotion of positive and responsible approaches to dog ownership and training, and a focus on deterring anyone from the mindset that a dog can and should be trained to fit conveniently into your life, however you choose to live it.

Not offended far too ‘thick-skinned’ for that. I brought up the crate issue because:

1. Single was the only one on the thread not using one and said ‘she was new to dogs’, and wanted to make it clear that she was not alone in not crating - as immediate response to her post seemed to suggest that crating was the ‘natural’ thing to do (although clearly well meant). Just as there are many people who use them there are many of us who don’t. And PETA is not the only organisation that doesn’t support them.

2. Personally, I find the arguments against crating more convincing than the arguments for. And for the reasons Floral gave I don’t buy the ‘den’ argument. My OH grew up with five dogs over the course of childhood, and is now on 9th as an adult never having used a crate as a training tool/dog habitat.

3. I’m not totally anti crates for particular situations: putting a puppy in a crate overnight may be the only way to get some sleep and not go insane in the early months: similarly, some dogs when recovering from surgery need to be restricted and can’t always be watched; for tiny puppies or very small breeds they’re useful in cars as harness set-up can be a bit tricky.

4. Everything Floral has said.

Cited the PETA article as came up first on Google and couldn't be arsed to look up other articles.

If people don't want to use a crate then no problem as no one is saying you need to but those that do aren't being cruel to the dog. If anyone wants to be cruel and uses a crate they would have just done it in a different manner without them.

My dog at 13kg as an adult was in a massive crate (looked it up and it's described as XXL) and it was his safe place for the first year of life. I also think using one made his stay at the vets slightly less traumatic as he was used to one being his safe place. Would I use one again, yes definitely. If you don't buy into the 'den' thing then fine as we all have different opinions but it was definitely my dogs 'den' when he was small in an otherwise busy room as he would choose his bed in the crate over the same bed outside of it.