anybody have experience of breeding dogs?

[mycutecumber]

We are considering perhaps breeding from our Golden Retriever, we have lots of space and I work part-time, dd and ds both dog lovers and keen to try it. Wanted to find out as much as possible beforehand, any experience anyone?

Puppies are a full time job in the first weeks - you can't really rely on being around some of the time.

Before even considering a mating you need a full barrage of health tests - a vet check is not enough - and an outstanding pedigree to make it worthwhile. Only breed of you are adding something to the gene pool.

thanks FairfaxAikman, our GR is registered with the Kennel Club and we have family history, who would we approach for health checks?

I think the first question to ask is why is it you want to breed?

I used to breed/show dogs years ago on a very small scale, and only with the intention of producing another pup to show. The none show quality puppies went to carefully vetted homes and I operated a waiting list. I really would not advocate anyone breeding from their much loved family pet because they think it would be nice to have a litter. It's no fun rushing your convulsing bitch to the vets with eclampsia on Christmas Eve, it's no fun when all the puppies die, it's no fun when you have to hand rear a litter because the bitch can't feed them. These are all RL occurrences that happened to me while I was breeding.

Also, unless you have a bitch who is a beautiful example of her breed in looks, temperament and health then don't do it. Also, if you're not prepared to fork out ££££ for a top quality stud dog who compliments your bitches faults and is himself a wonderful example of the breed then don't do it.

I think what I'm basically saying is don't do it!

Have you had the eyes, hips and elbows tested yet? We have recently bred ours and this is one of the first steps as you should only be breeding to improve the breed.

I suggest you get in touch with whoever bred your girl to discuss this. In our case, she was able to mentor us along the way.

Despite having these tests done with excellent results, and careful selection of the stud dog, we ended up with our bitch needing a c section, tiny puppy being pts leaving us with 4. Sold two, kept our chosen one but other one had to be kept on till 4 months as needed a plumbing operation. Specialist unable to save her so she needed to be pts too. We have our lovely puppy and the mum is ok but in financial terms we are down.

I slept with the mum from ten days before she had the pups until they were three weeks old. They can't be left in that time so that is a consideration.

What are your reasons for considering breeding?

KC registration alone is not enough though op. Plenty of poor examples of their breeds are KC registered.

Is your bitch a good example of her breed? Was she sold to you as a potential breeding quality bitch? Like @Fairfax said you should only breed if by doing so you can add to the gene pool and produce good quality pups.

@truffles story is a cautionary one op (and I'm very sorry to read it @truffle, so traumatic) It really isn't all cute puppy kisses and cuddles. You can easily end up out of pocket and traumatised. I still have flashbacks to the day one of my bitches ate her still born puppy right after birth!

I’ve heard there is a huge shortage of golden retrievers. And dogs in general actually so you’re doing a really great thing OP.

It's not health checks, it is tests. The eye tests have to be done annually by a specialist who is a member of the BVA panel. Depending where you are in the country you might well have to travel for this. I think it's about £60 but not sure.

Hips and elbows are done by x ray at the vets. The cost of the BVA scoring is £120 for this I think plus the cost of your vets appointment, general anaesthetic or sedation. The stud dog fee varies, can be something like £150 at the time of mating then £100 per live puppy. Vaccination against canine herpes, progesterone testing, worming, extra food, breeding insurance (or putting funds available for c section and aftercare), whelping box, heating pads, various medical supplies, vet bed etc etc. Additional toys for puppies.

Get a copy of the book of the bitch and read it before you start. I'm not sure I could face doing it again.

Full time job = 24 hours a day, quite literally. Good breeders sit/sleep/eat with mum and then litter from about a week before she is due until the puppies are several weeks old. They do not go out. They do not leave her and the pups. They have a good knowledge of veterinary basics so they can quickly assess and handle any problems - and know when a vet is needed. They understand genetics and how two rights can sometimes = a wrong.

Good first time breeders find themselves a breeding mentor - someone who has bred for years and has a really good handle on what is happening. That mentor is on hand, full time throughout the first few litters to provide advice and support.

Good breeders also have a really clear idea of what their dog brings to the gene pool - and just being KC registered is not enough. What is so special about your bitch that you think she would produce BETTER puppies than her? What is she missing that you would be looking for in a stud? In GRs that have so many individuals in the gene pool, I would consider it very difficult to have an exceptional individual that can add something

Good breeders will have a second, experience breeding bitch on standby in case their first-time mum rejects the puppies. They do not take risks by breeding with just one, untested individual without a back up plan.

They will also have considered the temperament of the breeding bitch and whether or not she is likely to cope with a litter. They will be using their experience of breeding (or their mentor's) to make that call, not just "pet" knowledge.

Health checks are covered in depth throughout the KC website - start here www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/451962/breeding_health.pdf

In my humble opinion (and I say this as gently as I can), good breeders don't do it because they fancied having a try and their kids love dogs. Personally, I would not buy a pup from such a set up for all the world. Others will, though.

First contact the golden retriever breed club and ask if someone with in-depth knowledge of the breed can go over your dog to make sure she is a good specimen of the breed. If she is a suitable bitch, then you need to get her hips, elbows and eyes tested for hereditary conditions. The sire must also be clear of hereditary conditions, so you must do your research. The breed club will be invaluable as a source of information. You also need to considered that you may not be able to sell all the pups, are you able to give them a home with you. Good breeders will also take back any pup they have reared at any time during their life if the occasion arises - are you able to give lifetime assistance to the owners, and perhaps take back a dog with issues regardless of age.

You may well find that you need to speak to the breeder anyway as most reputable breeders will have endorsed the KC registration to prevent the registration of puppies from your bitch unless the breeder lifts that endorsement.

In our case, our girl's breeder had to be satisfied that the eye and hips and elbow tests were excellent before she would do that. We had to provide copies of the certificates first.

olivetor7's point about keeping any unsold pups or taking back and returns is important. GRs can have up to 12 puppies. It's unlikely but you could have a few dogs returned and have to home them, any number of which could have been returned for health (expensive) or behavioural problems that you will need to sort. Worth giving real thought to.

An experienced breeder said to us, you will spend the first three weeks oohing and aahing at the puppies and the next five weeks counting the days till they go.

We were only dealing with 4 puppies which is a small litter for a GR but still we had poomageddon to deal with. Imagine how much worse if you have two or three times the number of pups!

Agree with pp. It is VERY expensive to breed ur dog correctly. Don't forget the test for their heart, it's commonly over looked.

The breeder we got our EBT from would like us to breed her. Her sire has won loads of awards and she was pick of the litter to show.

We have never shown her, she was bought as a companion not to show but the breeder would like the line to continue.

It's a LOT of work, time and money. But if done correctly and puppies and mother is fine and healthy and all have good homes it's worth it.

thanks for the information and personal experiences everyone, interesting reading.

I wouldn't. Not unless you know about genetics and health testing and really believe that breeding from your dog would somehow benefit the breed. Where did your dog come from? What does your breeder say? Many breeders place endorsements on the dog to prevent hobbyist breeders.

Mycutecucumber, I know it’s a lot to take in, breeding dogs the right way is very time consuming, expensive and emotionally draining. Even if you have done everything right and have done it 10 times before, the worst can still happen - losing both your beloved pet and her pups. If I was you, I would just enjoy her as the wonderful pet she is.

We have a stud dog that is only mated to bitch his original breeder recommends and that’s terrifying enough - I would never breed from a bitch of mine. I don’t have to do any pedigree matching or assessing of the butches, just literally make tea and supervise but it’s very stressful.

The second (and last) litter our boys Mum had left the breeder with a $13,000 vet bill and only 1 puppy left alive at 13 weeks.

I have a lifetimes duty of care to the puppies our boy sires so if for any reason a puppy is handed back and the bitches owner can’t take them I’m their next call. That’s fine if they’re still biddable puppies but the worry is I could be taking on, at very short notice, an entire, adolescent male with no training. I’d do it because that’s the contract I’ve signed but it wouldn’t be ideal.

I'm guessing most of the answers are not what you are expecting, but well done for asking op and considering the sound advice you've been given.

Most pet breeders give it no thought at all but see the prospect of a few grand when they sell the pups on Gumtree.

Please don't be one of those people.

An experienced breeder said to us, you will spend the first three weeks oohing and aahing at the puppies and the next five weeks counting the days till they go.

^This ^
Think about space. One puppy needs toilet training, play time (with humans) and regular feeding (4-6 meals). They chew, jump around and are into everything!
Now times this by 12.

Are you willing to spend 6 - 8 weeks caring for up to 12 little rascals and supporting a hard working mum?

(This is after you have done all health checks and found a suitable stud dog ...)

I'm guessing by the very brief response of op that they won't be back to answer our questions in depth.

I just couldn't, it's so terribly risky .
The thought of gambling with my lovely dog's health is completely unacceptable to me.
What is your motivation?