Mumsnet, fulll of dog haters?

[thecatsabsentcojones]

Yet another post on AIBU featuring dogs. Most replies are on the 'dogs are dangerous, dogs are badly trained, owners are idiots, children should be frightened of dogs' theme.
Am I one of the few on this website who think that dogs can be incredibly good for children? It's so hysterical. Do most people think like that? They don't round here but it's rural. I detest that mindset towards dogs, it's so needless - yes there are badly trained horrible dogs out there but teach your kids dog language, get them to ask an owner before petting a dog etc, don't get them absolutely terrified - they'll miss out.
If only these people saw the bedtime routine here, with the kids choosing which Labrador goes on which bed to provide sleep time comfort, they'd do their nut!

I have two large scary looking beasts who are fantastic family dogs.

Saying that, I have noticed very few people can control their dogs. Nobody recalls, dogs run wild up to other dogs and children. I’ve been chased on my horse numerous times by off lead dogs.
I also work in a veterinary setting- it astounds me the number of people who cannot handle or even muzzle their own dogs.
If you as the owner can’t touch it anywhere you like (within reason) and put a muzzle on it’s face you should not own it and I don’t care what excuses there are for that as it’s absoloutley dangerous.

I don’t allow mine to interact with strangers or strange dogs unless invited and I wish others would do the same.

So yes, I love dogs however people are idiots.

“Most replies are on the 'dogs are dangerous, dogs are badly trained, owners are idiots, children should be frightened of dogs' theme”

Well, there are plenty of badly trained dogs and absolutely crap owners. Are you saying there aren’t?

And why should a parent teach their child “dog language” if they don’t want to?

And why should a parent teach their child “dog language” if they don’t want to?

Because it's a life skill, like learning how to cross a road safely. Children will come into contact with dogs during their life - just as they will come into contact with traffic - and it's important that they learn how to deal with each safely. Don't run into traffic, don't approach growling dogs...

Fair enough-don’t approach growling dog. Or don’t approAch dog at all.

Growling dog should not be anywhere near a child. Or an adult, for that matter.

We don’t have dogs. I’ve worked extensively with working dogs. I’m not a dog lover or a dog hater.

We don’t teach our kids to be afraid we teach them to be wary and cautious. There’s no way of knowing if that dog they approach is a well trained healthy animal, or one owned by some idiot who has no boundaries with animals, and thinks letting a dog jump up on a child is acceptable. Or if the dog is flighty, or sick, or aggressive. My toddler has no way of judging and my job is to keep him safe. So calm, wary and cautious.

Every dog is potentially dangerous. How much danger they actually pose is a combination of the breed (as I said on the other thread I’d rather be in a confined space with a pissed of pug than an angry Maremma) the training, the socialisation and the health of the dog. Comparisons to hamsters are disingenuous. A ragingly angry hamster can not hurt someone like a large dog can. There’s just no comparison.

I know many people who have working dogs and do agility etc as a pastime. Their dogs are well trained and as safe as they can be. 80% of the dogs I see at parks etc are just not trained enough - running free without owner recall, jumping up, it’s just not acceptable.

I will teach my kids to act safely around dogs and part of that is being wary and cautious. I don’t care how much owners love their dogs - their responsibility is to keep them under control in public places. If that means on the leash then so be it.

Dogs imo should be licenced and chipped and part of the conditions for ownership should be training. Of course pets and dogs can be great for children- but my child is not responsible for anyone else’s dogs behaviour

“but my child is not responsible for anyone else’s dogs behaviour”

This. 100 times this.

Your child or his behaviour is responsible if it frightens a dog that was otherwise minding its own business. So great that you teach your child how to behave with dogs not everyone does.
I've a very timid rescue dog who happens to be very 'pretty', I'm often surrounded by people wanted to pet her - parents with small kids being the worse. She's on a leash at all times in public places, we constantly work hard on her confidence and yet some random thinks it's ok to tell their kid 'oh, what a gorgeous dog, go say hello' even when I tell them not to! She's never growled or bitten but she's scared and I always move her away - despite having some fools follow us which beggars belief!
Like pretty much everything else, it's give and take - I train my dog, you train your kid.

IMO the issue is that it’s increasingly not a minority of owners, I don’t know why but there seems to be more and more dog owners all the time who just don’t control their dogs in public places

I agree with this 100%. I think it was the case, as recently as 10-15 years ago, that responsible owners were very much in the majority. I've seen a massive shift the other way in my own experience, living at both ends of the country. People with controlled trained dogs are the rare ones nowadays, and sadly it is affecting how the general public see dogs and their owners.

They really should bring back licenses. Having a dog is a responsibility.

They really should bring back licenses. Having a dog is a responsibility.

Can we bring in licences before people are allowed to have children? They are a responsibility and frequently a great inconvenience to other members of the public - for instance, I detest having to listen to someone else's screaming child in a cafe or on public transport.

That is just stupid, i m beginning to think you are just trolling?
We are genetically programmed to have kids, we need younger members of society, if not we d have died out long ago and of course they ll be paying my pension!

Dogs are choice, a hobby, if you like? and they cost society, dog bites, dog wardens, cleaning up after them....... a licence fee (say £100, not unreasonable considering how much dogs cost) would discourage irresponsible ownership and provide funds to provide more facilities for dog owners, litter bins, chipping service, watering etc.

I d have thought as a responsible dog owner, you d be all for improving the rather poor image dogs and their owners appear to have

I would challenge anyone to 'hate' the adorable puppy I spent all morning cuddling today. Perk of the job. I feel very very strongly about children being taught how to read dogs and how to care for pets in general, to the point I give talks in primary schools. My own son's school actually does a reading with dogs scheme, where the children get to go off and read to the dog, it's proved a huge success especially with Sen children. These therapy dogs are also taken to visit care homes and dementia patients etc. The stories I could tell would make a grown man cry. Then there's all the assistance dogs who do amazing work helping people live their lives, not to mention all the service dogs who help keep us safe. Dogs do so much for humans and they deserve a bit of respect in return. That thread this morning just showed how ugly humans can be.

There's a ladder of aggression with dogs and way down the ladder are many subtle signs that a dog isn't happy, if those signs are ignored often enough the dog will just skip them next time and go straight to the top (growling/biting). It's the ignoring of these signs that lead to children getting bitten. It's all very well saying why should I teach my kids etc but the fact is we share this planet with many animals and if you want to keep your children safe you should teach them how to respect animals and educate them on body language.

I agree that MN isn't anti dog, but they are anti irresponsible owners, which you do see a lot of!

I am a dog lover- however, I am also a horse rider and have had strange dogs run up to horses I'm riding before. To me, this is madness on the dog owner's part. A single kick could kill their dog or injure it. Luckily, the horse I was riding during the worst incident was much better trained than their dog.

I do think if you have a dog it's part of responsible ownership to keep it under close control, either through good training or using a lead etc.

In my experience around 90% of owners are sensible and responsible- but it's the other 10% that stick in your mind for longer!

I dislike dogs. I pretend I don't mind them in real life because the owners get upset with me if I tell them to keep their pet away.

So I don't think that it's that there are more dog-haters on MN than in real life, it's just easier to be honest when there isn't a dog and its owner in front of you.

This site is hysterical when it comes to dogs, a brief glance at any topic about dogs will tell you that.

People also seem to expect behaviour from "stupid animals" that they wouldn't even ask of their own children. Many parents allow their children to approach strange dogs and at best pet them, or at worst pull on their tail/ears/fur, try and climb on larger dogs, scream and run at them which dogs find very threatening... But the dog isn't allowed to react to this otherwise it's a "bad dog". Just look at many videos on the internet; one in particular shows a toddler pulling and hauling at a rottweiler and trying to climb up on it. The dog is showing clear signs of stress, such as yawning and panting, and trying to walk away but the parents of the child keep encouraging the child to continue because it's "cute". If that dog had snapped at the child, who would be to blame?

Considering how common it is to encounter dogs, I would say that being aware of a dog's body language can only be a good thing. Because yes, there are plenty of idiots with poorly trained dogs.

I like dogs

unfortunately, in London they are being used as a symbol of aggression and "don't mess with me"

in general, while running, I do see a lot of dogs who aren't hugely well controlled - it doesn't bother me because I like dogs, but I completely see why it might bother people and I think it probably would be good to bring back a licencing system. I agree with a pp who said it's not a minority anymore. A significant number of people have no idea what they are doing with their dog, or don't care, or worse still, have them as a sign of aggression (after being done for knife possession!)

Dog owners need to understand that just as threatening or touching a stranger without consent is in law a form of assault, so too is permitting your dog to do the same thing. If your dog doesn't bother me, I'll certainly never bother it or you. If it does, then that's when the problem arises.

I completely agree with TreadingTreacle, dogs are a part of life (until they get legislated out of existence by those who just don't get their appeal) and so it is a life skill to read dog language. Christ, despite having two I've shown my two kids what a snarl or a growl looks like on the internet because they've never seen ours do either of those things. Surely that's vital? I wouldn't want mine approaching an aggressive dog, neither do I want them to go apeshit with fear at a strange dog - it'd be incredibly limiting and in this town which is quite pro dog they'd be looked at with absolute derision.

I get that some kids are fearful of dogs, but at least get them to react sensibly rather than hysterically. Unless of course they have something like ASD.

Interesting perspective - I would say that MN is full of extreme dog lovers myself who regard shelters that euthanase unwanted dogs as a bad thing. I'm not quite a dog hater, I walk the dogs of a neighbour who needs help, but to me there should be far fewer dogs, mainly in the country and much better trained. I would make a dog license about 100 quid, redeemable against behaviourist classes/puppy training and there should be a maximum number of dogs per parish IMO.

It's the owners I don't like, not necessarily the dog.
I have a massive fear of them. When I was a toddler we adopted a dalmatian from a rescue center. This dalmatian had problems. She was mental. She was fully sized and kept jumping on me and on my chest as a 2 year old so if anyone even comes near me now with a dog I won't like it and I'll avoid.
But some kids are frightened of dogs. My dd is terrified of them. Not through my influence. Just the barking and loud noises she doesn't like and DP's family don't keep their dogs close range so the Jack Russell likes to try and snap at her for no reason.

In my opinion, if you have a dog and you're walking it around a heavily pedestrian area, keep it within close range on a lead. The amount of times a child has cried in the park because DP's nan has let her huge dog loose and its gone up to a child and jumped on them, a stranger too and its passed off as "oh, she's just playing!" no. It's terrifying to some children.

avocadoes licencing is something that should be welcomed by responsible dog owners. It would cut down on the crap owners - such as the ones who have out of control dogs that attack and kill smaller or weaker dogs (a friend of mine had to have her lovely greyhound put down after it was so badly bitten by an out of control staffie type it couldnt be saved.) it could fund dog waste bins, it would allow chipping on a national scale in case your dog was lost or stolen. It would cut down on backyard breeders and puppy farms who keep dogs in disgraceful conditions and care nothing for welfare or genetic diseases. Basically only crap owners wouldn’t benefit.

It’s still the system in NI and it’s the system in Sweden where I live - dogs MUST be licenced and also you’re not allowed by law to leave a dog home alone for more than 4-5 hours. It encourages safe and responsible ownership and there is far far less dogshit, far fewer out of control dogs and fewer idiots owning them here. There is just no culture of ‘muscle dog on a string’ here. To have a dog that is poorly behaved where I live would see you ostracised.

I think I actually like dogs more since I moved here because the ones I encounter are generally well trained and behave well rather than the significant proportion of out of control ones I see back home.

I say we just think fuck ‘em.

I love my dogs and would be far worse off without them. I will always do my best to ensure they don’t do anything they shouldn’t or upset anybody else- this includes picking up all forms of their shit!

So, in summary, fuck ‘em.

I get that some kids are fearful of dogs, but at least get them to react sensibly rather than hysterically. Unless of course they have something like ASD

ODFO

Seriously I’ve had dogs all my life, but if a child is scared of dogs then it’s up to the owner to take the dog away.

I like dogs, I grew up with dogs and our local park is full of dogs. However, I fucking hat show many of the owners have zero control over their dogs- no I don't want jumped on by a Labrador. No I don't want dirty clothes or a giant dog's face in my child's buggy. Also don't then bloody laugh and say "he just wants to play" and ignore my sobbing child or the fact I'm covered in mud. Idiots.

There is really no such thing as a bad dog, just a bad dog owner (as someone said to me years ago). However, a child cannot tell the difference hence many are fearful.

Maybe there are just more bad dog owners now.