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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

anyone worried about this Alabama rot? washing the mud of your dog?

26 replies

Slartybartfast · 31/03/2018 10:40

they are going to need to wear shoes at this rate?

OP posts:
MellyPapa · 31/03/2018 10:49

I've been looking out for cases reported by vet groups on FB etc but unfortunately when you search for it online you just get sensationalised articles from the Mail and Sun etc.

We're not near a hotspot thankfully but I had heard a few years ago that a bad winter would dampen down the spread of the disease so I am hoping that it the case.

We tend to walk Ddog at the beach or only in the woods on dry days. I am vigilant for symptoms etc but I try not to let it get me worried.

Has something happened to trigger your concerns?

Slartybartfast · 31/03/2018 10:50

a newspaper article quoted by dm talking about washing the mud off, and of course facebook

OP posts:
GrimDamnFanjo · 31/03/2018 11:10

Yes I am worried, and DD hasn't even joined the family yet. We live in a hotspot and a case in Nov 17 actually detailed the exact routes we used to take with our old dog.
I found a website with a map of recent cases online.

BeyondThePage · 31/03/2018 11:13

Yes, we wash dogs paws after every walk now - first salt, now Alabama rot (2 cases on one of our local dog walk routes Sad)

TheLastNigel · 31/03/2018 11:14

I'm a bit worried so have just been washing mud off paws after every walk. Not much else you can do really...horrible though .

AlpacaLypse · 31/03/2018 11:15

Anderson Moore vets in Ringwood were co-ordinating research and running a website with reports of dates and locations, and the latest advice for owners and carers. I went to a very interesting lecture about AR given by one of their senior vets. We do have a known hotspot locally which we now avoid, a shame as it's an attractive woodland with lots of safe off lead walking. I have an idea that Vets4Pets have taken this role over now. You've reminded me it's time I checked up on latest advice. We rinse mud off after walks anyway - otherwise our clients would end up with very messy homes very quickly!

Slartybartfast · 31/03/2018 11:18

www.vets4pets.com/stop-alabama-rot/
thank you.
these are confirmed but as noted there may be unconfirmed.
also just read that it is seasonal so we may be out of the season imminently.

OP posts:
AlpacaLypse · 31/03/2018 11:20

yes it is now Vets4Pets hosting the information gathering etc here

AlpacaLypse · 31/03/2018 11:21

Sorry x post, yes, it does seem to be related to the ground temperature of the mud they befoul themselves with! Yet another reason to be looking forward to spring.

agedknees · 31/03/2018 19:18

I am worried because we have had a few cases near to where we live. I always wash ddogs paws after a walk. Hope everyone’s dogs keep safe.

MrsJoshDun · 31/03/2018 19:24

I worry.

We don’t live near a hotspot and until recently all the stuff I read seemed to suggest it was more likely if you walked in woodland, especially at certain times of the year. So we avoided woods.

Then a dog in our village got it and the only place it’s walked is the same fields i walk my dog, exactly the same footpath.

MrsJoshDun · 31/03/2018 19:26

Just checked the map and not all the cases are on there. The one from my village isn’t and that was a confirmed case, dog was taken to London to be treated at the royal vet College (?) and survived.

I’ve also heard of three cases a few miles away and they’re not on the map, not sure if they were confirmed or not.

usainbolt · 31/03/2018 19:39

Alabama rot can only be confirmed after a dog has died so if the dog in you village survived it would not be a confirmed case.

MrsJoshDun · 31/03/2018 20:02

That’s what I’d previously heard but owner says the vets in London said it was Alabama. Guess they could have said they were 99% sure so it wouldn’t be included.

noitsnotteatimeyet · 31/03/2018 20:15

I posted this on another thread but think it’s pertinent here: There have only been 29 confirmed cases of Alabama Rot this year out of a dog population of 8.5 million so while it’s devastating for those families affected, the chances of a dog getting infected are absolutely tiny. I think there is a lot of unnecessary hysteria about this at the moment - it reminds me of all the scare stories about necrotising fasciitis a few years back... when was the last time you read about that in a newspaper or on social media? It’s still around, still affecting a very small number of people just as it was at the time of all the hysterical coverage..,

AlpacaLypse · 31/03/2018 21:30

It doesn't help that AR isn't a Notifiable Disease - so although most vets will communicate with the V4P centre, there is no obligation for them to do so and if it's bonkers busy it may get forgotten.

joystir59 · 03/04/2018 07:35

DD had a shower yesterday but usually just a good run down after a muddy walk. I will not be putting him in the shower twice a day for the foreseeable, no.

BiteyShark · 03/04/2018 07:42

I always rinse my dog down when he's very muddy but that's to minimise the dirt in my house but I am not going to do anything different even though we live in a forest area. To be honest he's had more accidents and illnesses in his short life that I think the risk is from more mundane and common things than AR.

Whitney168 · 03/04/2018 08:46

I was reading a very interesting article (article not quite the word, but from an owner of a dog that died) yesterday that suggested where you walk your dogs and washing mud off are probably both immaterial - what makes the difference is your dog's immune system and reaction to the disease, along with monitoring for symptoms and hoping for early treatment before organ failure starts.

Will try and find it again ...

Whitney168 · 03/04/2018 08:50

As below ... obviously devastating for those who have had dogs die, but perhaps there is not much that anyone can realistically do to avoid?

Dear All

As some of you will know, we have just lost our beloved dog to Alabama Rot. It's not how you would wish any dog to end their journey. We moved her to a specialist hospital near Winchester, but yesterday we had to let her go. The vets in that clinic (Anderson Moores) are the only UK specialists on this disease, and although nothing can now help S, I am writing to all of you in case this information will help your own dogs, or any dog.

We spent a long time with one of their AR vets, who explained that there is a huge amount of mis-information out there about this disease, and most of the "facts" you hear bandied about are just guesses. They also feel it is under-reported to the tune of maybe tenfold, partly because some dogs are not taken to the vet or because vets fail to identify it correctly, or the deaths are just attributed to kidney failure etc. AR usually requires post-mortem biopsy to be 100% sure of the diagnosis. Not everyone is willing or able to pay for their dog to be treated, or to have a post-mortem, even though this helps the wider dog community. If a dog is not insured, costs are pretty steep and even if they are insured, you can easily pass the limit depending on your policy... So the problem is bigger than people realise and seems to be increasing. There have been several suspected cases even at our local vets, and Anderson Moores are seeing more and more victims from pretty much all parts of the country.

The bad news is that survival rates are very low, and we understand so little about it. The key thing is that it only affects a tiny minority of dogs - those whose bodies start an incorrect immune response, similar to an auto-immune reaction but this is an immune-mediated reaction - similar outcome, the body does the wrong thing in response to the infection. So in our case, for example, the other dogs walked in exactly the same muddy fields as S but are fine. And dozens, hundreds of dogs walk in the places where only one falls victim. So the fact of where a dog "caught" it is a bit of a red herring, rather like MRSA on humans, which is usually brought into hospital on the skin of the victim. No need to go into exactly how the body goes wrong in victims but it causes the dog to develop kidney and liver failure, inability to produce platelets or to clot the blood. The lesions visible on the dog's skin are also doing their work in the kidneys and elsewhere. So, by the time even the most vigilant owner sees a lesion, chances are that there are more inside on internal organs - but if not, then you may yet have a good chance.

Obviously this is hideous news for the unlucky few, but I stress that they are only a few. It is not contagious. The other dogs are alive and well, having shared beds, water bowls, dead rabbits with S. This is very different from leptospirosis (though can initially manifest in similar way) so the idea of "catching" it is less of an issue. It is more what on earth you do if you think your dog has developed it. Anderson Moores have saved dogs with AR but in those cases the dogs had only lesions, not any damage to kidney or liver. There is a lack of evidence to say categorically that those dogs would or would not have gone on to develop organ failure without treatment, but that is the other point. There is not really any "treatment" for AR in the sense of simply getting the right antibiotic, because what kills your pet is not the disease so much as your dog's reaction to the pathogen. The treatments consist of supporting the body to try and get it to the point where it can start to heal itself. A plasma transfusion, for example, is often done early on (S had this very early, at the local vet) but the effects wear off very quickly, and the dog either can or cannot make its own platelets after a certain point. And some of them do, and recover and go on their merry way. It makes no difference the age of dog, the breed or the sex. Some bodies just react badly and keep doing so, others do not.

So I guess my main message is to keep enjoying muddy walks. It seems bonkers that dogs up and down the land are being kept off certain fields or woodlands when so little is known. Similarly, the advice to wash your dog after walking is controversial because constantly wetting the skin is a great way to get bacteria into the bloodstream. My personal advice would be to keep enjoying all your usual walking places, but be hyper vigilant for the smallest sign of a lesion regardless of where you walk. Or even the dog being just listless or losing appetite. The first I knew that S was ill was that on Friday morning she did not want breakfast and co-incidentally had a strange patch of furless skin on a paw, like a cut. It soon looked much nastier and she was being sick, but I now realise that by the time they are throwing up, their organs are involved. If I saw a lesion on the other dogs now, I would not go to any local vet, I would take the dog at once to Anderson Moores. AR is just so rare and complex that the chance of a non-specialist saving a dog are pretty non-existent (and most general vets would agree and rapidly refer you). The dogs who present with just lesions do have the best chance of survival.

Lastly, the people at Anderson Moores did stress that none of their victims has ever died of the disease, in the sense that you actually euthanase before it gets to that point. You have time to monitor the situation with the dog made comfortable. They are, sadly, skilled at knowing exactly when the point of no hope has come for each patient, and that does make it easier for the owner because no one wants to leave it to the point that your dog is really really suffering.

If this information helps anyone by reminding them to check for lesions and act swiftly or just, as I hope, to relax and just keep enjoying their walks, then I would be happy.

BiteyShark · 03/04/2018 08:51

I do think highlighting the disease is a good thing though so people don't simply put off going to the vets for unknown lesions.

Whitney168 · 03/04/2018 08:53

Totally agree, BiteyShark

Slartybartfast · 03/04/2018 08:54

thanks for copying that @whitney168

OP posts:
mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork · 03/04/2018 12:51

My local paper announced the arrival of Alabama Rot in the vicinity saying that (I think it was 5 or so) cases had been reported within 20 mile radius of Epping Forest "Dog Black Death!" etc. One of the local dogwalker forum contributors has looked into this and reports that it is misleading - there was only one case in the last year and the others were 3 or more years ago.

missbattenburg · 03/04/2018 22:09

Really interesting reading Whitney168 - thanks for taking the time to dig that out.