Wee-machine

[BollySBK]

Morning everyone...

Two puppies, Sprockers, beautiful boys. They are now four months old (today, in fact - Happy Birthday, boys!) and fantastic little lads. So far in terms of obedience, eating, travelling etc, they are superb and both me and DS have put in a lot of work and time and attention. DH loves them to bits but is hopeless bless him at putting the time in, for all sorts of reasons....! Dog1 and Dog2 are NOT perfect, I hasten to add and have far to go, but for their age they are great. I work from home for the majority of the time and take them for two walks a day and when I am home they have the run of the garden as I work in a room where the door opens out on to it. At most they are on their own together for 3 hours at any one time, probably no more than 3 times a week.

However.... night time is a different matter. From the off set I did the usual get them out for pee and poo last thing, then when they first came I got up at the 'bladder capacity times' to ensure they could go out and then back to bed. Those times have increased with their age and there have been some wonderful mornings when I've come down and the paper is dry and obviously I let them out immediately so they can wee - lots of praise due. In the last week though there has been MUCH wee when I've come downstairs - irrespective of the time, and one of them, I think the larger one (the other one was the runt) also has decided that peeing outside is fine, but as soon as they are let back in, a pee is also necessary... I don't always see which one it is (evil dog owner who has her back turned for five seconds!!!) so reprimanding him is difficult.

Do any of you think that this is a vet issue or am I needing to revert to the 3.00am getting up to let them out? Am very happy to do what's needed to ensure both their health, keeping my sanity and hall flooring.... (they are cordoned off at night in a lovely bed with a child gate at one end of a small hall and a closed door at the other - always with fresh water and it's a decent temperature). Larger pup is more anxious than the other and when I walk them a different route from the other (DS or DH takes the other one a different way but still in view) he squeals for his brother and takes a while to calm. Nervous bladder situation, if it's him who's peeing for Britain?!

Many thanks in advance for your advice....

4 months is still very very young. Also it sounds like you have paper down for them to go on if they have an accident. Personally I didn't use paper or puppy pads because it can confuse a lot of puppies because how can they understand they are 'allowed' to toilet inside but only on certain conditions.

Some peoples use a crate as puppies don't like to toilet on their bed but as you have given then a large area it's 'easy' for them to see part of it as a 'toilet' area. Are you cleaning up every single accident with the cleaners that take the smell away completely so it doesn't keep encouraging them back.

You also have the added problem of having litter mates which can add to the complexity of training etc. This may not be the issue here but I know it can be more than double the amount of work as you need to separate and train them individually.

I don't always see which one it is (evil dog owner who has her back turned for five seconds!!!) so reprimanding him is difficult.

Don't reprimand for peeing inside as they don't understand and will probably start hiding to do it instead. If you see them pee inside by all means grab them and run outside and then praise like mad for finishing off outside but 'telling them off for peeing inside' won't help at all.

@biteyshark - thank you good point, I think the paper is used to try and stop the puddles worsening the floor, so I will try tonight without (to hell with the floor!) and also get some specific spray. I don't reprimand when they pee if I don't know which one it is or if there's a gap between pee and me finding out as I know this would confuse them and I hate doing it anyway! I do do the grabbing thing if I catch either one mid-pee though, and huge praise is given for outside peeing at all times. Yes, littermates tricky in terms of training individually and I'm managing the best I can - also have a 121 dog trainer once a month and plenty of socialisation with friends' dogs, so it all adds up. Thank you so much for your comments, really helpful.

You shouldn't reprimand them anyway, it just encourages them to hide indoors.
My dad's old girl was trained that way and when she had explosive poos she went upstairs. As they no longer go upstairs it sat for DAYS!

Not only is four months very young for being fully toilet trained, you have two the same age and unless you dedicate time to them separately it does take longer (been there) and you risk littermate syndrome.

Ignore indoors and throw a party when they go outdoors.

My puppy couldn't hold it all night until he was much older (I know lots of people say their puppy was dry very young but mine wasn't).

To avoid any night time accidents (as he had a huge crate and I didn't want him to feel he 'could' pee in it) I used to take him out at night. I worked on the principle that he could hold it for 1 hour for every month of age plus 1 so for 4 months I would only assume he could hold it for 5 hours. Every two weeks I would increase that time by 30 mins until I knew he could hold it all night.

@FairfaxAikman - thank you - a party will be held! I don't like reprimanding them so I'm pleased you've said this. Thank you.

@BiteyShark - I think the night time waking thing will start again then - I've seen the month plus one hour elsewhere so since you've reinforced that I'll definitely revert to that, thank you. I'm glad you've mentioned that your puppy wasn't dry til later, it's a typical thing as with children that there's always someone else who's baby / toddler behaves in a certain 'perfect' way and the rest of us feel like bad parents! It's only when you hear stories of other 'normal' children that you realise that you're not a bad mother, or in this case, an ineffective dog owner!! Many thanks again.

You might want to join the puppy survival thread on here if you haven't already. BiteyDog is finally all grown up so I don't frequent it much now but it was a life-saver in the early days just to know that you aren't the only one battling with the puppy and adolescent months.

Link to the latest one here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/3184677-Puppy-Survival-Thread-Part-6

@BiteyShark - thank you that's so helpful, I've tended to be on the child orientated ones until I came across 'The Doghouse' so knowing these are available definitely helps to de-stress me - I shall pop in there and say hello! All the best - Bolly

Having had littermates (well still do!) the single best bit of advice I was given and now give you is make time to do training sessions separately (you can still walk them together) as it will make it click faster with them.
Also get thee a good recipe for liver cake and use that for recall only. Even if it takes calling them 20 times give them a bit when they do come back and pretty soon they will be back like a shot - it's doggie crack.

@FairfaxAikman - thank you re the training session thing, I think that's sound advice. Love the liver-cake-crack tip! I shall google now! Many thanks!