Question about PLL test for terrier puppy

[Gremlinsateit]

Hi, I have a bit of a dilemma. I have arranged to buy a puppy from a registered breeder on the basis that the breeder would provide vet check, vaccination certificate etc and also test results for primary lens luxation which affects this breed.

The breeder has now said that she has not had either the litter or the parent dogs tested for PLL, and was relying on clearance from the breeder who had the grandparent dogs. He had told her he had tested, but apparently he is not answering her requests for the certificates. I've spoken to that breeder myself and he didn't seem to think it was an important issue. He said that at least 2 of the grandparents were clear, but I don't know which 2 grandparents, and whether the other 2 were carrier or affected; and it's all a bit distant from this actual puppy.

It would take 4 weeks to get new tests done, and that would be after the date the breeder intended to deliver the puppy to me. She is asking whether I will commit to take the puppy and not return it no matter what the results of the test might be. If I do take the puppy, either way I will have the test done myself to be sure I have test results for the correct dog. I don't intend to breed.

What do you think - I don't know whether to walk away from this puppy or take the chance.

I’m a bit concerned by the fact the breeder is delivering the puppy to you - that is often a tactic of the not so great breeders.

Can you check with the breed club? Or the kennel club to see if the Grandparenrs have all tested clear? Depending on the breed some clubs publish the results.

I wouldn’t be buying a puppy from non-health tested breeding lines. I know some people aren’t concerned but it’s non-negotiable for me.

Thanks Maitlandgirl, you are right. I’ve told the breeder that I won’t take her without the certificates.

It’s such a shame as the puppy is great, being raised in a home environment with both parent dogs present (delivery was logistics rather than an alarm bell) and the grandsire is a country champion imported at, no doubt, vast expense - it really is annoying that breeders would go to all this trouble and not order a simple, cheap test.

At least the kids haven’t laid eyes on the puppy

I assume that you have seen the pup in it’s home with it’s mother and you are happy with those circumstances- I mean that you are sure it’s not a puppy mill. I have had one litter and I delivered the pups, just because I wanted to check the homes they were going to. The fact that the breeder doesn’t want the pups back no matter what is a red flag.
As for test results, for me it would depend on how high the risk is. I have non tested pups but then they are a very healthy breed and I knew the breeders very well and knew the parent dogs too.

The not taking the puppy back is the red flag as it sounds like they don't trust the results to come back negative. I would walk away at this point.

My dogs parents had a couple of genetic tests and I saw the paperwork before I committed to buying the puppy.

The not taking the puppy back is a massive red flag. I have another thread going at the moment about my whippet pup diagnosed with a heart murmur at second vaccinations despite 7 week vet check being clear. Breeder was devastated, immediately offered refund and return etc etc.
Thankfully, it had turned out to be a minor thing, but the way she handled it was great.

PLL aside, I wouldn’t buy from a breeder who wouldn’t take the dog back. All kinds of things can turn up in the first week or so....

Any decent breeder would take puppy back at any point in his life regardless of reason. Just that part of your post screams walk away!

Also not only was she dishonest about the tests but she has breed these puppies irresponsibly. She should have known the parents health status before breeding.

Also having the sire there is actually a bit of a red flag. How does she keep them separate enough, that neither dog is stressed, when bitch is in season? (you shouldn't breed a bitch every season or more than 4 times in her life). I would only expect sire to be there if there were kennels that sire was kept in at least some of the time.

big that's such a tough situation to find yourself in. Thank goodness you had a good breeder who cared, so you've got options. Regardless of your choice going forward, just knowing you had the option of refund and sending puppy back and that breeder cared about puppy, must have helped a lot.

So many people use a bad breeder who doesn't care and just churns puppies out regardless. My ex-h parents bought a puppy, a couple of months in it became clear her kneecaps were deformed causing them to slip out of place (had to have major surgery on both legs), the puppy also developed thyroid problems, and eye problems. They thought the breeder would want to know - they loved the puppy and didn't want to send her back or get any money back. Breeders response was along the lines of "so what? It's your problem now. Don't go thinking you'll get any money back." It made it even harder for them to come to terms with their puppy being so poorly/unhealthy and they had to come to terms with the fact they had given money to (thus supported) someone who didn't give a damn about health of the puppies and left them worried how many other puppies were suffering because of that breeder but there's not a lot they could do about it.

Our contract with our dog’s breeder says that if at any time during his life we need or want to rehome him he has to go back to the breeder first so it is worrying that your breeder is reluctant to take the puppy back if the test results are bad

I agree, walk away!!!

If not, is puppy KC Registered? You should be able to get parents kc names and puppy kc name. Armed with this information go to the website, all health tests should be recorded, under "Breeding" is a health test finder tool.
If puppy is not registered / the breeder makes more excuses: WALK AWAY!

Thanks so much everyone for your helpful suggestions. I had another conversation with the breeder today which raised more concerns and I’ve asked for my deposit back. I was prepared to work with her to get the certificates in place, but I’m no longer comfortable with the set-up.

The sad thing is that she clearly has no intention of testing now, and she’s confident she’ll be able to sell the puppy to someone else who won’t require the test results (and may well want to breed from the uncleared pup). And she’s no doubt right as she has found buyers for her other puppies.

I think you have made the right decision because you would be heartbroken if you got it and the tests came back positive knowing what you know about the disease.

I thought long and hard about whether I was prepared to get a puppy without knowing it's parents genetic history for certain conditions. Whilst I would look after my dog whatever health he was in I wouldn't forgive myself if I had to watch him go blind for a condition I knew about but choose to ignore iykwim.

I think you made the right decision.

Goes to show that a breeder being registered doesn't necessarily make them a good breeder. Breeding puppies is often such a dodgy business

Sorry that you didn't get the puppy but it's definitely for the best.

Good luck finding a truly reputable breeder. The breed club is a very good place to start. Also if you get the parents KC registered name, you can look them up on MyKC on KC website (you have to register but it's free) and it will have any health tests they have had. It will also allow you to calculate the inbreeding coefficient of the puppy.