Not taking out pet insurance...

[HolaWeenie]

We collect our dog in 2 days, I've spent quite a lot of time looking at insurance policies. It seems a total swizz!

Ideally we would like a lifetime policy with around £2-3k per illness, no annual policy limit and around £100 -200 excess. That looks to be available for around £15-20 per month, which will increase each year. As I understand it with lifetime policies you're unable to shop around like car insurance as it's based on you renewing, so by the time dog is 6yrs old we could be paying quite a lot more each month.

We have low risk lives, fairly sensible kids for their ages and I'm at home all the time. I plan to train the dog well. He's a toy breed so will be on lead most of the time. So whilst you can't foresee accidents, I think we're quite low risk.

We'd cover vaccinations and neutering and small things, just like we do with our house and car insurance, we don't claim for small things. So the insurance would be for big things that run into the thousands. The policy will then be capped at £2/3k anyway, so we will be exposed for amounts above that.

We do have credit available to us if something should happen, so my question is are we nuts to consider not taking out insurance!?

I had a cat, he was just a moggy. When he was 5 he was diagnosed with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. From diagnosis to death, 4 months, I would have had to pay nearly £4,000 if I didn't have insurance. If he had lived longer I would have had to use my savings for his medication and vets bills.

We have a 5 year old (naughty) dog and chose not to insure her and "self insure" instead. So far she has had a £400 op to remove a lump, op would have been closer to £700 if we had insurance with all the "non-essential" extras they add in.

Most vets are pragmatic, if you have insurance they throw everything they have at you, if you don't then they will give you an "essentials" quote.

DH and I have differing views on the amount we would spend to save our dogs life (his is more generous than mine)! We have the money if anything drastic came up but we will definitely consider insurance in the next couple of years where I believe statistically there is more likelihood of needing it.

SPARKS17 you said you will consider getting insurance when she's older. Everything you have been to the vet for up to that time is a preexisting illness. Most will exclude anything associated with those from your policy. I think I have seen one that will insure but for a small amount only (which does increase if you don't claim within a certain time). You will need to read the small print very carefully. When I claimed first they wrote to the vets and asked for a compete history, not just for the bit I was claiming for to check it wasn't pre existing.

We "self insure" too. It is risk management. We save £30 a month into a separate account and take the risk that we have enough to fund emergencies. Over our life-time of 5 dogs (25 years) we have had one dog needing expensive orthopaedic surgery that has "used more than her share" but this has been more than equalled out by the other dogs needing far less than we put away.
I agree that when the vets know that we are not insured they can usually suggest less expensive options. I truly believe, for example, that MRIs etc are now suggested when other, much cheaper, diagnostic tools could be used.

The cancer my dog has is a mast cell tumour, in her eye lid. It is slow growing and not aggressive and the surgery they are talking about doing, if she needs it in the future, is to create a new eyelid out of her lip so that they can save her sight/eye. She's only 3 and in perfectly good health otherwise. But actually the specialist vets advised me NOT to do anything for the time being as she is not in pain, it's not bothering her and it's not spreading - so they do care about the dog's welfare, not just getting the insurance money! But without insurance, I would be stressed about the bills to come. This way I have peace of mind that if she needs help, I can give it to her and not PTS an otherwise healthy dog because I can't afford the fees.

My vet knows I am insured but always tries to start with the 'cheapest' scan etc first. Of course if they know you don't have insurance they will try and keep the costs down but I actually prefer that they went with the 'best' method like an MRI if that was going to give them a definitive answer rather than say more traditional cheaper methods.

Insurance is a very personal thing, whether it's for pet or home or anything else. I do have savings to fall back on so actually I could forgo insuring but I view it as something that is there for when life is shit so I won't have to use savings and I know the money will always be available.

Other people are happy to gamble without it and only worry about the costs if and when it happens.

So OP I think it really comes down to which type of person you are.

I insure for the first year then pay into premium bondsregula the amount insurance costs My dogs bonds are now in the thousands. When i say to the Vet no no insurance the recommended treatment and price often changes . Tbf I could and would have paid several thousands pounds if I'd had to, I would have put it on my mortgage rather thanlose ddog. I put £1,000 in bonds when we got ddog1 several years ago and £500 when we got ddog2and the bonds have built up very nicely. Slightly more risky than insurance but I am not being ripped off.

My dog is nearly 3 and so far we've claimed nearly £5000 for problem knees and other non related issues. She came from health checked parents so we did all we could to try and avoid hereditary problems but knees aren't checked as part of the breeding as it's not a breed "issue".

It costs us £48 a month - expensive but definitely worth it.

We've paid just under £800 on premiums so far but have claimed back much more.

Re vets charging different prices.

With my vet they don't do that, any "non-essentials" as PP have termed them are usually about making the experience better for the dog. Eg using an MRI to begin with would definitely pinpoint the cause but an X-ray might and you might still have to do an MRI on top.
Ie they recommend the more expensive procedure first to save to dog the stress of two sedations and to save money long run.

They always offer both options, insured or not, and explain why they recommend the more expensive one.

They also don't do things that turn out not to be needed.
Eg my girl had surgery recently and the estimate included two X-rays. Only one was needed so they didn't do the second one.

When i say to the Vet no no insurance the recommended treatment and price often changes

tbh that's the case for private health insurance for people as well. and to be fair, insurances are a bugger to deal with, late payments, incomplete payments, paperwork...

Our perfectly healthy Labrador puppy developed an ear and eye and skin infection which would have cost nearly £400 a month in antibiotics without insurance and a potential £3000 operation...

It's very simple. If you don't want go pay for insurance. Don't get a pet. Because I guarantee that when the cost (which they always do because vet bills are very high) goes over a few hundred pounds, you won't think it's worth it for a pet and have it pts because you don't want to pay £11 a month...

We had ours insured until recently and only once had a substantial claim. Now they are 12 and insurance is £60 each a month we decided to stop. We also wouldn't treat cancer at this age. When it was £20-£30 each a month we gladly paid it.

About to look into 3rd party insurance though.

This thread beautifully illustrates our quandary... there are those of you who have had completely unexpected vet costs which total £000's and there are those of you who have had pets with little need for veterinary care for a majority of their lives.

Therefore, as some of you have said, it depends on what type of people we are and how comfortable we are with risk.

I have always had my animals insured and always wished I hadn't. The premium goes up so much each year and even though I've realised I would have been better putting the money aside I've continued to pay as I've already given the insurance company so much and this might be the month I need it. My premiums always start at about £25 a month and go up by about £10 a year so before you know it you are paying £65 a month or £780 a year. Not everything is covered. You have to pay an excess so you are still paying for the small, every day type things. Yes, an operation can cost £1000s but if you have been putting £65 a month aside you will £1000s and your dog may very well not need an operation and you can just keep the money. I wouldn't get pet insurance again but I wouldn't get a pet if I couldn't afford to save on a monthly basis for their possible medical needs.

It's really not that simple op. People saying they'd put the animal to sleep or it should a rip off, have been lucky their pets never got sick. They'd be singing a different song if they had.

You cannot predict if an animal will get ill. Sure some go through their lives perfectly healthy and need nothing other than the occasional trip to the vet. Plenty others do get sick and need expensive treatment,

Vets don't say well are they insured then decide the most expensive treatment, that's either bullshit or a crap vet, I've never had one who has done such a thing and I've had four dogs.

To say well I'd just put them to sleep. That's a bastard of a decision to make for a much loved bet, knowing how devastated your family will be and how much it hurts when they die. It's like losing a family member. But to do so knowing your animal could be fit and healthy again and it's simply because you didn't want to pay twenty quid a month for Insurance and now can't afford to make the animal well again is not something any reasonable pet owner could do easily.

So yeah, you can take the risk you're one of the lucky ones, or say yeah I'd just put the animal down rather than pay to make them well again, but for twenty odd quid a month I think you can probably see why most people cannot understand that attitude. It's hardly a bank breaking amount.

I will probably get flamed for this but hey ho.

As mine are both rescues that came with pre existing conditions that will never be covered, AND we can afford ongoing medications for things like diabetes etc, AND I don't agree with long drawn out complicated treatments/surgeries for things like cancer etc..........

Mine only have accident and 3rd party insurance. So if they break a leg or something, or cause any 3rd party issues they are covered but anything else not.

I have paid out of my own pocket in the past for a few ops and some ongoing age related treatments but still recon I have spent less than insurance would have been.

Our dog seemed very low risk but at 9 months old developed epilepsy. He has a type of epilepsy which means that his seizures which don't naturally end - so if he fits he needs immediate veterinary attention within 30 minutes or less, or the fit would kill him. He has IV diazepam and fluids and is always right as rain a few hours later, but the cost of an overnight vet is £6-700. The seizures almost always occur at night.

They are caused, as far as we can see, by stress or excitement, and are generally controlled by medication (cheap enough at about £40 a month). However he has bad patches. One fit here and there is fine, financially, but if he has a spate of three or so it adds up.

I can understand why a dog owner wouldn't want to put their pet through invasive cancer treatment etc and therefore might not insure, but there are many illnesses like this one where the pet has an excellent quality of life but is still very expensive to keep. We couldn't morally justify putting our dog to sleep on the basis of him having a few seizures each year - even emotion aside.

I think from a lot of the prices quoted here that it probably depends on where you live. £600-£700 for on overnight stay with IV diazepam means you either live in an extremely expensive area, or the vets are inflating the price for the insurance.

My most expensive vet bill was when one of mine developed a severe D&V issue and had to be at the vets on a drip for 3 days. There were also blood tests and x-rays and the bill was less than £700 all in. That was about 5 years ago.

I think you’re incredibly naive to think your ‘low risk lives’ means your dog is less likely to have an accident

You could live in the middle of nowhere with no roads and no risk of your dog being run over but he/she could still break a bone by jumping off th sofa or getting up too quick and twisting it’s leg!

What if it has diabetes or other similar illnesses? Can you afford £700+ per month for injections etc?

Seriously, get insurance.
My last dog was the most healthiest dog you’d ever meet, only went to the vets for her puppy vaccinations (I don’t give boosters) and she never had any need to go back. She was raw fed so had the best diet, great exercise. We got up one morning to find her poorly, took her to the vets for the first time in 5 years, he couldn’t find anything so he referred us to the specialists. She had cancer. Wasn’t treatable. She passed away 3 weeks later.

5 years old, healthy happy dog until that day.

It’s not worth the risk OP. Get insurance

Vet bills vary even in the same area. I know someone whose dog had D&V and needed a few nights in the vets with drips etc and their bill came to roughly the same as mine except mine covered scans (X-rays and ultrasounds) and blood tests virtually every day.

Take the insurance at least for 2 years, then you should always have public liability. Two years should cover any potential illness or condition which may develop, friends dog had an in going skin condition which needed monthly tablets which were well over insurance premiums. I stopped pet insurance with my last dog when she was 6, putting the £50 into a bank account, her last year cost about £2,000 in investigations/ biopsies, she had an inoperable tumour so sad decision was made to let her go at 13, we were still quids in. Our new dog has on going insurance cover, we claimed twice in the first year, approx cost £1800, she’d eaten a stick and needed emergency surgery to have it removed. Eventually we will cancel her insurance and put £50 into an account, but we will always have public liability, I think the dogs trust do a good deal on this. Also I have a very reasonable vet, I’m aware that the prices she charges are much lower them some I hear about.

Tabulsa you quoted me but seemed to miss where I said my decision won't have to be based on money, just the dog and the risks and trauma Vs likely benefits and chance of the positive outcome. there are things I won't ethically do that some with insurance will but it's not about the cost - and that's what I was saying, if you can still afford to make the decision based on the dog not the money then you can take the risk of not having insurance. The bit you quoted was in response to SDGT who had said she didn't think vets would do things if not in the best interests of the animal but it's not that simple - what one vet thinks is worth trying, another could consider unethical to subject the animal to, there are no solid rules on exactly where that line falls.

Please take out insurance.
We have always had it for our animals and I'm so glad we did.
For example our giant house rabbit got an abscess in his paw..We ended up after numerous treatment with a bill of just under £1500.
Same with our dog..He picked up gastroenteritis last summer from swimming in the lake where we walk him.
Another huge bill.
I would never have a pet without insurance.

Chippyway if my dog, who dislikes the vet and really dislikes injections had diabetes then, sadly, I would PTS because that would be less stressful than trying to inject a dog that doesn't want to be injected daily, I really wouldn't want her to suffer the indignity & discomfort of having to inject her when I know she wouldn't want it.

I'd take intervention on a case by case basis. Had she an abcess in her paw it'd depend, it might be treatable by simple first aid procedures eg I'd check for thorns and poltice, but I'd not deny treatment if needed (eg antibiotics)