Do you want a designer dog? This is the reality

[CapnHaddock]

A company called DoodlePets has had to take down their entire social media presence because they were found dumping dead puppies

www.kentonline.co.uk/whitstable/news/distressed-driver-finds-dead-puppies-in-lane-159095/

They fell off the back of a trailer apparently. This is what you're supporting when you buy your cockerpoos and puggles for stupid money. You're enabling fuckwits like this to force dogs to breed with the sole consideration of how much cash they can make.

You are not a dog lover if you buy a dog from gumtree or facebook or any other social media platform. There are great posts on here which explain how to go about finding a new puppy. Please consult those before parting with any cash.

Thank you from dogs

If rescues take in puppies from 'puppy farms' are all those breeders prosecuted and stopped from ever breeding again? If not then again I don't see how things will change unless you look at correct regulation of all breeders.

I found the RSPCA were the worst. Would not even speak to me once I mentioned I worked. Dogs trust were sensible and would have been happy to rehome a puppy if I used day care when I had to go into the office.

As it turned out I wanted a specific breed so didn't rescue. I just think we should acknowledge that other people want cross breeds and need a way of regulating breeders of cross, mixed and pedigree puppies.

Putting clear regulations in place and policing those regulations for ALL breeders, whether it is cross, pedigree, commercial or family breeder would be far more effective than saying people who buy cross breeds are bad.

I agree that that needs to be done as well.

BUT - it’s supply and demand, isn’t it? Backyard breeders won’t bother if people don’t pay $$$ for puppies.

That’s why posters try to raise awareness on here.

1. ds bought kc reg French bulldog pup (I know) had to have both hips replaced before it was a year old 2) ex vet nurse dd coming from a home that had always had rescue dogs refused by all rescues as dog would be left for a couple of hours am/pm.

BUT - it’s supply and demand, isn’t it? Backyard breeders won’t bother if people don’t pay $$$ for puppies

It is supply and demand but once again thats not a problem only associated with cross breeds. Cross breeds are popular now hence the reason Backyard breeders are breeding them. But so are pedigree breeds like french bulldogs and pugs. In 10 years time it will be a different selection of breeds that are popular and that will be what the backyard breeders are selling.

As other people have said proper policing and regulations need to be put in place to reduce the issue

Sorry, but KC breeders aren't any better sometimes! After all, it's the KC who 'regulate' the conformation of breeds (look at Crufts) which then impacts on the breeding lines. So many breeds now are totally fucked thanks to KC breeders!!

I hate puppy farms, & think anyone who buys a pup without fully exploring where it has spent the first 8 weeks of its life & spent time with at least mum needs a shake.

There is no regulation & just a lot of different voices shouting for the same thing from different angles. I know a few breeders who breed to improve their chosen lines; they have stringent contracts, waiting lists & one I know has actually taken an owner to court to reclaim the pup when the contract was broken. She won.

I'm a huge rescue advocate but i understand the demand for pups outside of rescue. Rescue groups - namely the bigger ones - have a blanket checklist. If you work, nope. Have an under 5, nope. Have a cat, nope. Live in a flat, nope.
All i can say is until that changes, smaller rescues are the way forward. Foster based rescues can assess their dogs properly & will place in family homes if you pass a HC.

Regarding cross breeds, i feel the same as any breeding. There are far too many people choosing to breed two dogs for dumbass reasons, without health checks, reality checks regarding time & money, & without solid homes for the pups to go to. Irresponsible & those people are part of the reason so many pets get dumped, usually with underlying issues. I wish more people could see the reality for some of these dogs once they get to the pound & are unclaimed

It is supply and demand but once again thats not a problem only associated with cross breeds.

No, I mean any backyard breeders. Not just cross breeds.

it’s supply and demand, isn’t it? Backyard breeders won’t bother if people don’t pay $$$ for puppies. 100%, totally agree Husky!

I find that smaller or breed specific dog rescues are far more sensible than the bigger ones.

Yes Bitey pups are usually in rescues when the mother has been taken away for welfare reasons and charges are being pressed against the owner.

I wish MN would put a thread re: puppy's/rescue/puppy farms at the top of this section like they do in relationships.

I also think it's heartbreaking for families when a badly bred (even KC) dog has serious health issues due to breeding policies and has to be put down as a very young dog (thinking brach types/labs with bad hips/GSDs with sloping backs).

I'd always heard that crossbreeds were more healthy than pedigrees as pedigree dogs aren't "natural" as they've been bred to be that way/be to KC/pedigree standard or whatever. Mongrel was always the way to go... I guess this differs from new Designer crossbreeds though?

No it isnt! This is disgusting, but has everything to do with unscrupulous dog breeding practices in all areas of breed type, not just deliberate crossbreeds.

I agree that this is true in itself. However, the big difference is that the vast majority of designer crossbreeds are be puppy farm bred. I have never yet seen anyone post a website on here showing gorgeous fluffy puppies gambolling in the sunshine that it wasn't possible to evidence very quickly through licensing applications and reading more into the website content that they were an out and out puppy farm with very clever marketing.

There are also lots of puppy farm bred pedigree puppies, but it is much easier to load the dice in your favour with pedigree breeders, as you can often build far more history around reputation, because they conduct themselves in the public eye with regular show appearances.

We got our rescue border collie from RSPCA.

Nothing to do with crossbreeds specifically, everything to do with greedy bastards churning out litters of the latest fad for £££. Look at these poor Frenchies
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sick-dying-how-one-animal-11912144#ICID=sharebar_twitter

Surely all breeders are in it for the money! I visited one KC registered breeder - she must have been registered to breed labs but we visited for a labradoodle - she had 11 dogs, all badly behaved/trained - apparently hyper because it was raining and wet outside and they had to stay indoors, this was in the summer months - she walked the dogs for 1km a day. We walked away....I personally can't see how she would be regarded as a good breeder - the dogs were there to make money for her but she had done all the tests and had all the paperwork.

I just had a look at Pets4Homes website where it seems that this guy advertises. You can get a cockapoo puppy for £900 to £1,500+. A purebred poodle is £800. How many people buying a cockapoo want one because they think it's hypoallergenic when they could just get a poodle.

I'd always heard that crossbreeds were more healthy than pedigrees
I think crossbreeds are healthier than pedigrees when it comes to visible issues, like if you breed a flat faced breed with a breed that has a longer muzzle. The puppies are most likely going to have less breathing difficulties etc. than the flat faced parent.
The issue is the internal problems, things that people cant see until its too late. Without having health tests performed and a history of the parents lineage.
This is something good pedigree breeders do, and its something that to a extent cross breed breeders could do. But its something no backyard or puppy farmer does, so people buy these puppies that look healthy and then in the future the puppy can develop all kinds of health problems.
I will agree that i think a true mongrel (no idea who the parents are, parents were probably mongrels themselves) are healthier than any breed of dog, designer or pedigree,

As a child the family dog was a KC club registered Show Cocker Spaniel bought from a supposedly reputable breeder, which we travelled a long way to collect the puppy from.

He had every breed associated health problem going...eye, ear, hip, stomach...whilst he lived to 14 everyday of his life was impacted in some way by these problems.

I bought a crossbreed puppy last year, bought him from a young couple living in a council house advertising their puppies on pets4home (Shocking hey?!). Whilst not a "designer" crossbreed they were an intentionally bred litter. They were bred from the couples own working bitch and the breeders dads working dog, as they had used their own working dog for a previous litter and were deliberately mixing things up (imagine that, people actively trying to avoid inbreeding!!!). The guy breeding them clearly cared passionately about his dogs, you could tell in the way he handled them.

He is a wonderful dog, gets complimented on his health every time he has a check up at the vets, not an aggressive streak in him, wonderful with kids (breeders socialised the puppies early with their own pre-school/primary age kids).

Obviously the more a puppy is worth the more likely that breeders might be unscrupulous, but that applies to any dog...pedigree or crossbreed!!

It is interesting how few people would be interested in Poodles, but how stratospheric the rise of their crosses has been.

moochypooch - I know that this will be dismissed, but I know an awful lot of breeders of the pedigree breed I show. I can't think of any that would even break even financially, let alone make money. They have the occasional litter to continue a line for showing and they put their all in to making sure their puppies have the very best start in life nutritionally and socially, so the puppies they keep and any they sell are well reared and confident.

I have two friends who are currently abandoning their comfy beds and sleeping on camp beds with their bitches and litters to ensure they are safe and well - not leaving them in kennels and just coming down in the morning to count their profits.

Personally, this is the only kind of breeder I would be interested in buying from, and I think it's a shame that so many seem able to ... kid themselves? ... overlook? ... the poor start that the increasing majority of dogs have in the UK in their search for a cute puppy. At best, they are treated as livestock - in the case highlighted in this post, they are 'industrial waste'.

I bought a poodle cross from a family who bred them. I researched what to look for, met them saw all health checks and saw how loved all the animals were. They knew my pup as they'd looked after it. She's a wonderful dog and I would do it again. And, yes, she was £800. We wanted a cross for hybrid vigour.

@EggsonHeads - I suspect the puppies were probably just left to die because they were sick.

I do understand re rescues being frustrating (it's why my existing dog isn't a rescue) but I don't see how you can get a puppy if you work full time. Or don't have landlord consent. And bigger rescues cannot risk a dog being around small children when they have no idea of its temperament. Surely that's common sense?

I'd always heard that crossbreeds were more healthy than pedigrees

It could well be that in a population of dogs that were allowed to self-select, building a 'survival of the fittest' approach, this would be true. It is categorically not true when people cross-breed incompatible breeds of poor stock to start with and then rear them badly.

Your argument op is like saying if you employ a Polish cleaner you're supporting the slave trade

"Surely all breeders are in it for the money!"

No, breeding ethically is a hobby, one that often costs money not makes it.

"I personally can't see how she would be regarded as a good breeder"

Well no, KC registered dogs don't automatically mean good breeders, the problem is that crosses up the chances of it being a bad breeder.

Crosses are basically a bad breeders wet dream... they can sell them for as much, if not more than a pedigree, they can overbreed bitches because they don't have to stick to the KC's rules about how many litters a bitch can have... and they don't even need to pay attention to which dog mates -as it doesn't matter particularly which cross it is, if they give it a name someone will buy it.

I know someone who has a dog de Bordeaux and they've just randomly taken him around to their friend's house who has another big dog, and bred them.

OP I foster for smaller rescues, have done for nearly six years. I break all the 'rules' set by bigger (usually kennel based) organisations.

I live in a flat
Up until recently I worked full time
I have a five year old
My landlord consent is conditional

I've had 50 odd dogs & all bar the last two went to new homes without any problems, many of them with kids. A decent rescue will take the time to assess the dogs in their care as individuals - foster based is obviously a lot easier to do this. By blanketing all dogs as unsuitable with kids for example, many are condemning healthy dogs to death. The RSPCA will only keep a dog for so long. This is what infuriates me when rescues whinge about people buying puppies. Some of them are sadly part of the problem; usually because they don't assess their dogs properly!