How do you know when it's time?

[TuttiFruttiPatutti]

So, not sure if I need a hand hold or advice or what but I feel like I've spent a week in tears and my heart is breaking.

My beautiful baby girl (not really a baby anymore, she's almost 16) has had a cancerous tumour for a number of years that was inoperable but not causing her any pain or affecting her quality of life so the vet advised us just to leave her be.

A week ago we found out she now has another one in one of her nasal passages meaning it's completely blocked, only one side letting air in and out when she breathes.

Vet advised she wasn't in pain, again it's not affecting her quality of life so to leave her for now but keep an eye on her.

She has other ailments generally associated with being old - partially sighted, wee bit deaf, bit of arthritis meaning she gets a bit stiff and can't walk too far but she's a happy doggy and still eating and drinking.

I feel like the last 48hrs she's had enough. She just lies in her bed and sleeps a lot.

I feel like we're keeping her alive just for us.

DH won't have any of it - he keeps saying she's not in pain, just old and tired, and she's ok.

I feel like she keeps looking at me like she's telling me she's had enough and can we please just let her go.

It's breaking my heart.

Someone tell me that I'm being ridiculous and DH is right, if she's showing no signs of pain we should leave her..... or else can someone give me some advice on how I should go about getting DH to see that it's time?

so sorry - I had to let mine go when she was starting to struggle to eat and drink. I agonised about whether is was too early, but there was no way to make her better. It's when their quality of life goes and they are no longer able to eat, drink, go for a walk... you could ring your vet for further advice.

She has been eating ok until last night.

We feed her after she's been out for her last toilet visit just before we go to bed, but last night instead of waiting for her food she got straight in her bed and laid down and went to sleep.

I'm going to see how she is when I get home from work today and if she's the same I'm going to ring the vet for advice.

She stays with PIL while we're at work and I've asked them how she is and they said she's ok, but I think they're in the same camp as DH......

I just want to leave work and go home and see her

When I knew my boy was in pain (we ended up sleeping with the French doors open in winter as he couldn't hold it in any more) I spent 2 weeks crying and then had him PTS when he couldn't comfortably get around. The vet came to us, DDog lay down on a rug in the kitchen, vet put him to sleep while I cuddled him, then stopped his heart. It was perfect and I didn't cry again.

Our last dog was coming to the end of his time with old age and numerous health problems. I said to my oh that I thought he should be pts, but he said that he seemed okay, and obviously thought I was jumping the gun. It was six weeks later that we had him pts at home, during which time he had declined a great deal and life was becoming really difficult for him. I said to my oh that we should have done the deed when I suggested, six weeks before, and he agreed, and admitted he was wrong. It's an often used saying, but better a week too early than a day too late. From what you say, your dog has reached the end. Better to go while still reasonably comfortable, rather than as an urgent trip to the vet with a distressed and collapsed dog.

Oh my darling, I'm so so sorry. We don't deserve dogs in this world. They are so innocent and pure.

Your DH is right, she's old and tired but in no pain. She will want to spend as much time with you as possible because she has clearly had the best life with you and will hang onto it because she loves you all so much.

Keep monitoring her and as soon as she look like she is might start to suffer... Then I'm sure DH will know too.

I'm so sorry again. Your poor puppy girl. Please take comfort in knowing you have been the very best owners she could have and will love you forever xxxx

I would advise (if you can afford it) having her PTS at home. It was a gentle experience, I was holding her and talking to her and afterwards I felt a huge sense of relief. The sun was out and we were on the lawn together in the sun. My first ever, beautiful baby. Stay strong.

We, as a family, have had the last 3 dogs (over the last 40 years) PTS when they could either no longer maintain their dignity or couldn't eat/walk.
Dog#1's back end went and whilst she could still eat she could no longer walk herself enough to do her business cleanly. She was obviously distressed by all this.
Dog#2 had cancer and arthritis. He seemed not to be in too much pain but faded over a few weeks until he was no longer enjoying life and didn't want to eat or go for a walk (his two life long passions).
Dog#3 got some sort of dementia and she got confused and distressed. She couldn't hold her toileting, started getting lost in the house and started to become scared of everything.

In all cases the vet came home and the dogs just went to sleep in their normal spot and didn't wake up again. It was definitely kinder.

Don't wait until all the stars go out before making what is admittedly a very difficult decision. It's not you doing the battling.

You will be right. I'm a vet. A lecturer told me at college "God made dogs tough!" Which makes it more difficult for us as vets, because they will just keep plodding on until their bodies just break completely

"Pain" and "suffering" are not always interchangeable. Pain we can often help. Suffering is far more subtle. And dogs, God love them, want to please us. So they are very subtle. Just a little bit slower. Just a little less enthusiastic. Sometimes we need to recognise when they are only existing to keep us happy, and owners know, deep down, when that is the case.
It's a hard decision to make. I often ask my clients to think of all the things that made their dog hapoy/ come to life (e.g. Food, barking at the postie, walks, isitors, chasing next doors cat out of the garden) Does your dog still get pleasure from these things? Ratio of good days to bad - note them in the calendar, as it's easy to convince yourself one way or another.
As well as being there with my clients I have also let 3 dogs of my own (all elderly and/or ill) go in the last 7 years. It's hard, but it's our duty. We owe them for everything they give us. If your dog has had 16 wonderful years (as mine did) , you really don't want their last couple of weeks to be miserable.
Best wishes

Going against the grain on here, though, I don't always think euthanasia at home is the best idea. Dogs are often more fearful of a vet invading their space. I've had clients distressed at having to corner the dog somewhere. The lighting/positioning is often not ideal, making it harder for us and ultimately for the dog.They often pass urine or faeces, which is harder for us to clean up discretely in your home, and distressing for you and them. They then have to be removed from your home, which can be upsetting (especially if you have neighbours gawking). And finally, I never ever wanted to be sitting looking at the spot where my beloved dog breathed its last while watching tv.
Easy as it would have been to euthanase mine at home they all came to the surgery, where they we more accepting of injections (ddog2 was fine with vaccination at the surgery, screamed the place down when done at home!)

It doesn't always follow that home is more peaceful. Most vets now work to make sure you have time and privacy at the surgery

Thank you everyone for replying, I think I needed to get it off my chest a bit and talk about it!

You're right @ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs I definitely don't think she's in any pain but I do think she's suffering in her own way, which I think is why I feel such an incredible sense of guilt.....

I wouldn't have her PTS at home, we have a DS (10) who I really don't want to be there when it's done, so I think I would allow him to say goodbye but take her to the surgery on my own.

She's a little perkier tonight than last night but PIL said she only drank half of her morning cup of tea which has never been known in 16yrs, so we're going to see how she takes to food tonight and watch her like a hawk tomorrow and Sunday.

If she shows no improvement I think we will be calling the vet next week.....

My heart breaks for you, it really does.
We had to have our last dog PTS it was hard but the best thing for him.
My nana had just passed away and he was really her dog, he went from being a happy dog, loved going out and playing to a dog that just slept, and cried. It was awful.

My mum took him to the vets and he had kidney failure, So they did more tests and it came back that basically they could medicate to give us extra days but that was it. I left work at lunch time so i could go and say bye to him.

Dogs are the best friends ever. I miss him all the time even now nearly 6 years later.

OP I’m about 3-4 years off making this decision if I’m lucky. My heart goes out to you, really it does. I hope your lovely baby is safe and happy, wherever they are xxx

I sent my post a while ago, it took a while so it crossed with your update. Glad she’s perked up, enjoy your weekend with her xxx

tuttifrutti . This bit, where you're thinking about making the decision, is the hardest. Truly.

Once you make the decision, everything gets easier. It hurts, but that horrible gnawing "are we doing the right thing, is she miserable?" is gone. And when she goes you only need to be sad for yourself. And that's easier, honestly .

I hope you have a good week/weekend with her.

Cath2907 can you help please?
My elderly, much loved, foster greyhound is suffering with dementia.
We have had her for nearly two years. She is 13 (I think)
She gets lost in the house. Will get stuck behind doors. Stands around looking confused. Toilets in the house as cannot remember to go outside (so I will let her out, she will sniff, come inside after 5 or so minutes, and promptly poo or wee indoors)
She will sleep on her bed all night and whilst we are out. Very content.
When we are home she has to be in whichever room we are in. But won't go on her bed (we have one in every room now). Instead she will stand. Head slightly down, staring into space.
She is however still eating and drinking and has the odd 3-bounce burst of speed in the garden with the other dogs.
Would you say she is suffering? I have never had the privilege of having an old dog, so this is new to me...
I don't want her to suffer. She is also partially deaf and partially blind. And her back legs are weakening....

behindlock not Cath, but my elderly beagle had dementia. It's so so hard, but I did let him go eventually. I think I should maybe have done it sooner, but I was determined I wouldn't euthanase him for being incontinent, and I think in that I overlooked HIS quality of life. It's something we're seeing more and more. I think that as vet care gets better animals are living longer, and so we are seeing more dementia etc as a result

Than you platypus.
I don't know how troubled she is by the incontinence. She eats her breakfast and whilst wolfing down the last few mouthfuls begins to poo on the kitchen floor.
She will poo in the house at least twice a day. Picking it up has become the norm (thank heavens for wood flooring and antibac wipes)
She has weed in the house a few times. The first time simply squatting on the landing carpet (urgh), the second time whilst getting up from her bed (I'm putting that one down to trying to use all her muscles to get up, her hind legs are getting weaker)

I think we are in for a rocky few months (weeks?). I don't know what to do for the best...

Aww behind . It's so crap. And so hard to know how it is for them. However, having watched my lovely wee granny with dementia, I am so relieved we can save our dogs from that confusion and indignity.

So many of my clients are afraid I'll "judge" them and don't want to look like they are considering euthanasia because of the inconvenience of pee/poo. I promise you, I KNOW it's not that!!! As a vet, when I see an owner with an elderly dog that I know has been well loved and well looked after, I understand how hard it has been for you to walk in that door and even talk about it. Please don't be afraid to talk to your vet, they really won't think badly of you. Like you, we just want to do what is best for your beloved pet and you

The hardest thing I ever did was make this decision for my elderly dog. I too felt like she'd had enough. Best advice I ever had was, better a week too early than a day too late.

Just coming on to say the say the same as Isitwinteryet- better a week too eatly than a day too late.
My vet also said with my last dog ( only 9 but with a nasty cancer) better they go while still wagging their tail & enjoying tit bits, as that's how you'll remember them.
My boy went in my arms scoffing bits of sausage, greedy bugger till the end!
Hand hold, hugs or to you all whichever you prefer.