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Tips for buying a "genuine" family raised puppy

75 replies

SpottydogDomino · 14/01/2018 19:37

Any advice for buying a puppy??

Other than only using the Kennel Club website to find a puppy, how can we be sure that any adverts on FreeAds, Gumtree etc are not selling puppies from puppy farms (with all the problems and diseases). We did not want another rescue dog. We wanted our own puppy this time so we could enjoy the puppy stages which we have missed out on with our lovely rescues in the past.

Any help from anyone who has had experience (good or bad) welcome. Any pointers in the right direction??

OP posts:
MumMoselle · 17/01/2018 22:17

We found our current dog on Gumtree. He's a Sprocker Spaniel. He's our 4th dog and we were a little wary and prepared to walk away if we felt that there was anything suspicious. Happily all was well, the breeder interviewed us before visiting, we met mum and all the pups, home raised inside with lots of interaction with people, and we are still in touch with the breeder and other dogs from the litter.
Yes he's a Sprocker, no he's not a designer breed, 100% Spaniel. Great with children, other dogs, wants to work so needs exercise and mental stimulation.
Anyway, OP, work out what type of breed you are looking for and what will fit with your lifestyle and keep looking. Don't rule out every avenue but be buyer aware x

Wolfiefan · 17/01/2018 23:29

A reputable cockerpoo breeder? No.
Why would you produce a litter? Not to show or to keep the best of the pedigree or to work. For money. That's the only reason to do it.

Oops4 · 17/01/2018 23:57

To produce lovely pets? Clearly thousands of people like the mix. Breeding to show or produce the best pedigree is no better.

BrownOwlknowsbest · 17/01/2018 23:59

Rescues do have home, family reared pups sometimes. Some years ago I was looking for an older rescue dog at our local RSPCA centre and watched a litter of pups arrive. Mum had been adopted in pup, and the family had raised the litter to 10 weeks before bringing them in for rehoming. Each pup was being handed over with a photo of pup with Mum, name, favourite blanket and toy, together with notes on temperament and general likes and dislikes. They were gorgeous, well socialised pups even if Dad was an unknown quantity

tabulahrasa · 18/01/2018 01:01

The thing is, you're clearly coming at this with some misguided idea of what a reputable breeder is.

Good breeders that compete or work dogs and breed to continue their lines would be raising those puppies in family homes... because those dogs are also pets.

Pigletpoglet · 18/01/2018 07:02

I'd second Discover Dogs - we went with a breed shortlist of 9, and ended up with a really uncommon breed that wasn't even on the list! We spent about 2 hours at the stand, got contacts for the breed clubs, and waited 7 months for a pup. We were lucky to get one so soon, and only a couple of hours drive away! 3 years later we are still in very frequent contact with our breeder, who dog sits when we are on holiday, helps us with grooming etc. Really worth taking your time and finding the right breed and breeder.

girlwhowearsglasses · 18/01/2018 08:06

Word of mouth is very much alive!

Go to a show - either discover dogs or a show for the breed club you like. This is ideal but you will be seduced by that breed! All the owners will tell you how lovely they are (quite rightly in my opinion —whippets— Wink). Make it you business to chat to owners - they are happy to chat. Ask about the breed (Good with cats, kids, etc ) and Cath to the club people at the club stand. Ask what the going rate is and if they know anyone who breeds, go and can’t to that person, are they having a litter soon? They will be ‘interviewing you’ for suitabilitynto have their puppies. If they like you they’ll put you on their list or tell you a breeder neare to you etc.

You have to be sociable but it’s great

Wolfiefan · 18/01/2018 08:11

@Oops4
If you think breeders do all the necessary tests (that cost time and money) and search out the best pairing to mate and produce puppies that take time and effort to read in order to make other people happy then you're deluded.
These dogs may make nice pets. But they are bred for money. Often by people who don't care about health or welfare. Many may live happy and healthy lives. Some may have health issues. And what about the life of the bitch that has litter after litter?

k2p2k2tog · 18/01/2018 08:17

We got our puppy through word of mouth and a group for the breed. We decided what breeds we wanted and contacted the local society for that breed. Many of them seemed to have a Puppy Coordinator or similar. We told them what we were looking for and why we wanted a puppy - so family pet rather than as a working dog or to show. The coordinator knows what breeders are having puppies and when, and after about a 6 month wait one litter came up not far from us.

We then dealt directly with the breeder, saw the dogs several times with their parents before bringing her home.

Oops4 · 18/01/2018 08:45

Oh wolfie its not me that is deluded. To think that breeding a litter of puppies to meet some ridiculous breed show standard that over generations has destroyed the health of breeds is any better in terms of animal welfare is laughable. There are so many health conditions to test for because of these breed standards and breeders who breed to them. If you want to reassure yourself that that is not the case then it is you that is deluded.

Seeking out a pedigree breed is no different than seeking out a crossbreed. I'm tired of the sweeping assumptions consistently made on this board based on personal opinion and very little fact. Are many puppies bred purely for money? Yes. Are fashionable cross breeds more likely to be victims of puppy farming? Yes. Does that mean that every person that has bred a cockerpoo is a careless, money grabbing, reckless puppy farmer? No it doesn't. It means you have to do your research, just like with any breed.

rightsaidfrederickII · 18/01/2018 09:35

Blimey @Hopping. How did you find out it was a set up? Sounds like most people would be fooled by that set up

Wolfiefan · 18/01/2018 09:41

Cockerpoo isn't a breed. Confused
My dog was bred because her breeder wanted to produce a litter of pups in order to keep her line alive and keep a pup herself.
And my dog doesn't have a ridiculous show standard. Dogs are bred to be fit for purpose. Or I wouldn't choose the breed.
You are deluded or naive @Oops4

CatchIt · 18/01/2018 10:13

I found this on a website on a particular breed I was looking at. It really struck with me on what to expect when looking for a puppy and contacting breeders. I know it's ping, but it's worth the read:

"Puppies are not interchangeable; one is not the same as the others. This is largely because every breeder has their stop-the-presses criteria for breeding or not breeding, and each has preferences for size, personality, working ability, etc. Breeder X’s “perfect puppy” is not the same as Breeder Y’s.

Stop looking for a puppy; look for a BREEDER. Make a personal connection with a breeder you feel shares your top criteria, and then wait for a puppy from them. Maybe they even have a litter on the ground, which is wonderful, but maybe they’re not planning anything for a few months. Or maybe they’re not planning anything for a year; in that case, ask for a referral to another breeder that shares those same priorities and has a similar (or just as good) personality and support ethic. However it works out, screen the breeder first, then ask about a puppy.

1b) EXPECT TO WAIT FOR A PUPPY. It’s VERY rare to wait less than a couple of months; four to six is normal. I’ve waited a year on a couple of occasions; no, even we breeders don’t walk through the field, able to pick puppies like tulips. We ALL have to wait, and we ALL have to get matched up by the puppies’ breeder.

  1. INTRODUCE YOURSELF THOROUGHLY. The initial e-mail should be several paragraphs long; block out at least an hour of quiet for the first phone call. When you initiate contact, clearly communicate three things: You are ready for a puppy, you are ready for a puppy of this breed, and you understand what sets this breeder apart from the others and you share that commitment. Specifically describe your plans for this puppy; be truthful. If you are not going to be able to go to four training classes a year, SAY SO. Don’t say “Of course, training is a huge priority around here,” or you’re going to end up with a puppy who’s flushing your toilet sixty times a day because he’s so bored and you’re not challenging him.

The ideal first contact e-mail usually goes something like

“Hi, my name is X and I’m writing to inquire about your dogs. I’ve been doing a lot of research on [breed] and I think they’re the right one for me because of [these four reasons.] I know puppies are a huge commitment, and I am planning to [accommodate that in various ways.] I’m approaching you in particular because of your interest in [whatever,] which is something I feel is very important and plan to encourage in [these three ways.]”

That’s the kind of e-mail that gets a response, and usually pretty quickly. If I get something that says “I hear you have puppies on the way; how much?” it goes in the recyle bin before you can blink.

2a) Bring up price either at the end of the first contact (if it’s been successful and you feel a connection to this person) or in a follow-up contact. It’s nice to say “If you don’t mind me asking, about how much are [breed]s in this area, if there is a typical price? I just want to be prepared.” The breeder will usually give you two pieces of useful information: Her price, and the median prices around you. That way, if you decide to go a different way, you know about what to expect. If the second person you contact names a price that’s double the median, try to discreetly find out why. A very difficult pregnancy, nationally ranked parents, a surgical AI, c-section resulting in very few live puppies, those are some reasons a breeder could be asking more and it’s reasonable. If there’s no real difference from the other breeders except price, think carefully.

  1. BE WILLING TO BE TOLD NO. Not every person is the right match for every breed. That’s just fact. There is no way on earth I could make our home appropriate for a Malamute puppy, and I’d have to lie through my teeth to get approved for one. And I have my entire life devoted to keeping dogs happy. I don’t expect you to have anywhere close to the obsession I have, so that means there will be some dogs that are just plain wrong for you. If a breeder says no, ask why. If the answers make sense, don’t keep calling people until you finally get one who will sell you a puppy of that breed. Go back to the drawing board and be very humble and honest with yourself about what kind of dog really would be right for you and your family.

  2. PLEASE DO NOT GET ON MORE THAN ONE WAITING LIST unless you are VERY honest about it. This goes back to rule 1. You need to understand that we think our puppy buyers are just as in love with the puppies as we are. We’re posting pictures, writing up instructions, burning CDs, researching everything from pedigrees to nail grinding, all so we can hand off this puppy, this supreme glorious creature of wonderfulness, with the absolute maximum chance that it will lead a fabulous life with you, and we’ve built all kinds of air castles in our heads about how happy this puppy will be, and what it will do in its life with you, and so on. Finding out that you had your name on four lists shows that you don’t realize that puppies are not packages of lunch meat, where getting one from Shaws is basically the same as getting one from Stop and Shop.

Also, as soon as your name is on one of our lists, we’re turning away puppy buyers. If we’ve sent ten people elsewhere because our list is full, and then suddenly you say “Oh, yeah, I got a puppy from someone else,” it really toasts our bread. So just BE HONEST. If someone came to me and said “I’m on a list with So and So, but she’s pretty sure she won’t have a puppy for me, and I’d love to be considered for one of your dogs and I’ll let you know just as soon as I know,” I’m FINE with that. I understand how this goes. It’s not a disaster for me to have a puppy “left over” at eight weeks because you ended up getting that So and So puppy; it’s just frustrating to have the rug yanked out from under me.

  1. PLEASE DO NOT EXPECT TO CHOOSE YOUR PUPPY. This one drives puppy buyers CRAZY. I know this, trust me. I have a lot of sympathy because I’ve been there. But the fact is that when you come into my house and look at the eight-week-old puppies and one comes up and tugs on your pant leg and you look at me, enraptured, and say “THIS IS IT! He chose ME,” I’ve been looking at people coming into the house all week, and every single time this same puppy has come up and tugged at them and every single one of them have said to me “THIS IS IT!”

What you are seeing is not reality. You are seeing the most outgoing puppy, or you’ve fallen in love with the one that has the most white, or the one that has a different look from the rest of the litter (when I had one blue girl puppy in a litter of black boys, every human that came in the house wanted her; when I had one black girl puppy in a litter of blue boys everyone kept talking about how much they loved HER), or the one that’s been (accidentally) featured the most in the pictures I’ve posted. Or, sometimes, you have a very good instinctive eye and you’re picking the puppy that’s the best put together of the litter. And that puppy, of course, is mine, and you’re going to have to pry him out of my cold dead hands.

My responsibility is not to make you happy. And that, dear friends, is why I am posting this now, and not when I have a bunch of actual puppy buyers around :D . But it’s the truth. My responsibility is to the BREED first. That’s why my first priority in placing puppies is the show owners, because they are the ones that will (if all goes well) use this dog to keep the breed going. It’s not that I like them better than I like you; it’s that I have to be extremely careful who I place with them so that they can make breeding decisions with the very best genetic material I can hand them. My second responsibility is to the PUPPY. I will place each puppy where I feel that it has the best chance of success and the optimal environment to thrive.

So while I do care, and I will try to take your preferences into account, do not expect to walk into my living room and put your hand in the box and pick whatever puppy you want. And do not expect to be given priority pick because you contacted me first; conversely, do not expect that because you came along late you somehow won’t get a good puppy. Sometimes the person who calls me when the puppies are seven and a half weeks old ends up with what I’d consider the “pick” for various reasons (sometimes because somebody called me up and said they’d gotten a puppy from someone else; see rule 4 above). I am going to try to do my absolute best to match puppies to owners as objectively as I can, not according to who called first.

When I was waiting for Clue, I think I initially called Betty Ann six months before she was born. I waited through two other litters, where Betty Ann thought she might have something for me but then in the end told me no. Then I waited until 8 weeks when she thought this one might really be the one, and then another two weeks until she made her final picks and sent me a puppy. I was about ready to vomit with the tension. I UNDERSTAND. But the rewards of waiting and being matched with the right puppy are greater than any frustration with having to sit with an empty couch for a few more months.

  1. ONCE YOU GET YOUR PUPPY, THERE WILL ONLY BE THAT PUPPY IN THE WHOLE WORLD. If you’ve been sitting around with your fingers crossed saying “Please, Molly, please, Molly, I only love Molly,” and I say “I really think Moe is the one for you,” you’re probably going to feel disappointed. But take Moe and go sit on the couch, and put your finger in her mouth, and realize that she has a really cool white toe on one foot but none of the other feet have white toes, and let her try to find a treat in your pocket, and I guarantee you by the time you’re five minutes out of my driveway Moe will be YOUR puppy. And a year later you may remember that you thought Molly was so pretty, but Moe… well, Moe could practically run the Pentagon she’s so smart, and her face turned out MUCH more beautiful than Molly’s did. And so on.

  2. PLEASE FINISH THE ENCOUNTER WITH ONE BREEDER BEFORE BEGINNING ONE WITH ANOTHER. If you end a conversation with me saying “Well, this just all sounds wonderful, and I’m going to talk it over with my wife and we’ll call you about getting on your waiting list,” and then you hang up and call the next person on your list, that’s not OK. If you don’t feel like you click with me, or you want to keep your options open, a very easy way to say it is to ask for the names and numbers of other breeders I recommend. That way I know we’re not “going steady,” and I won’t pencil you in on my list. If you are on my waiting list, and you decide that you don’t want to be anymore, call me AS SOON AS YOU KNOW and say “Joanna, I’m so sorry, but our life has gotten a little crazy and I need to be taken off the puppy list.” And I make sympathetic noises and take you off. If, then, you decide you want to get a different puppy, be my guest. Just keep me apprised and let me close off my commitment to you before you open it with another breeder.

…Which brings us to something that is super important and most puppy people don’t realize:

8 ) EVERY BREEDER KNOWS EVERY OTHER BREEDER. Now of course I don’t mean the bad breeders, but the show breeding community is VERY small and VERY close-knit. If you’ve been on my list for three months, I’ve kept in contact with you, I think you’re getting a puppy from me, I’m carefully considering which one to sell you, and finally I match you with a puppy when they’re eight weeks old, and THEN you e-mail me and say “Sorry, I got a puppy from Arizona, bye,” my instant reaction isn’t going to be “Oh noes!” My instant reaction is going to be “From Jill?” I probably e-mail Jill several times a year, if not several times a month, and I’m probably going to pick up the phone in the next sixty seconds and say, “Did you just sell a puppy to Horace Green from Topeka? Did you know that he put himself on my waiting list three months ago and has been saying all along how excited he is?” And two minutes after that she’ll get a call from Anne in Oregon and Anne will say “Did you just sell a puppy to Horace Green from Topeka? He’s been feeding me lines for eight weeks! I had a puppy ready to go to him next week!”

And we will take your name in vain, Horace Green from Topeka, and Jill will feel bad that she sold you a puppy, and oh the bad words we will say. And Horace Green from Topeka will be a topic of conversation at the next Nationals, and t-shirts will be made that say “DON’T BE A HORACE,” and someone will name their puppy Horrible Horace and everyone will get the joke and laugh.

In the end, “Be excellent to each other,” as Bill and Ted so correctly ordered us, is pretty much the paradigm to follow. If you err, err on the side of this being a relationship, not a transaction. Try to act the way you would with a good friend, not with an appliance salesman. And the ending will be as happy for you as it is happy for us"

Oops4 · 18/01/2018 10:14

Wolfie, I'm neither. But your judgemental condescension of me and others that you know nothing about is really becoming a bit tiresome.

Wolfiefan · 18/01/2018 10:38

I may not know you but I know about the world of puppy farmers and BY breeders. It's not about you. It's about the dogs.
Catch that's really useful. Unfortunately too many people want what they want when they want it. Selfish and thoughtless.

Jigglytuff · 18/01/2018 10:47

That's a really great post Catch.

OP - it's really worth signing up to the DogsBlog email if you're not massively fussed about breed. They collate dogs/puppies from smaller rescues across the UK and have a steady stream of puppies/younger dogs: www.dogsblog.com/category/age/0-1-years/

CatchIt · 18/01/2018 11:13

Thanks, I refer to it often even though we well me really don't want to get a puppy until ds is in his 2nd year of nursery and the dog is older.

Some very good and valid points are made that anyone considering buying a puppy should read.

Whitney168 · 18/01/2018 11:16

Excellent post, CatchIt

SpottydogDomino · 18/01/2018 13:38

Thankyou Catchit. A great post. All this has really helped to put us on the right track.

BTW Champpdogs website is excellent. I want to get to Crufts to get to know our shortlisted breeds in more depth (or end up falling in love with a completely different breed lol!)..

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 18/01/2018 13:40

Enjoy Crufts (hoping to take my girl! Eek!) good luck in your search.

Hoppinggreen · 18/01/2018 14:38

right hindsight (and our vet) !!

Pigletpoglet · 18/01/2018 20:03

Wolfiefan - think you'll be at Crufts on the only day we aren't! We're doing various things (including Discover Dogs) on Thurs, Sat and Sun. Have fun!

Wolfiefan · 18/01/2018 21:01

Oh it'll be fun with my girl! That's for sure! Grin

wheelwarrior · 20/01/2018 12:58

Mine is not from KC reg breeder but had papers and was word of mouth but from someone that works his dogs as groundkeeper and wanted new puppy to bring on was home reared etc but had to meet us first and had to reassure him that was up to meeting the needs as we was not planning to work in same way he did .We still in contact and meet up And he is happy with how my boy turned out at 3

.Rest went to ground keepers he knows while temperament was bred for was also intelligence and ability to work

So it can be done without Kc but you need to do your homework re tests etc

wheelwarrior · 20/01/2018 13:00

Would I recommend doing that way no not if just want a quiet pet .
For us it was ok knew what wanted but we easily do 20 plus miles most days and and he works in home plus Obedience classes

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