Other dogs!

[Mairyhinge]

Hi, you may remember me, I posted a month ago about how I'd mastered ( more or less) recall with Trigger. Well we are still doing good, he doesn't like not being able to see me so even if he runs off playing he will, eventually, come 'to his senses' and look/ listen for me.
Now my problem is other people and their dogs. Trigger is 7 months but due to his breed looks older ( bedlington whippet). He is still very playful, but the amount of people who don't want him near their dogs is crazy, he's just tried to play with one but she was scared of him so that made him bark at her.
He steals balls, so I take at least 2 out with me so we can swap if need be but this isn't good enough, the dog wants THEIR ball ( generic green tennis ball), and today he ran off to play, but came running when called but the other dog didn't, so that's my dogs fault!
I'm getting downheartened because he can only learn his manners from other dogs, but honestly some people are so fecking precious it's bonkers.
I KNOW he needs to learn to behave better, but what can I do?
He just wants to run and chase, but the whippet in him means he out runs most dogs, so again I get moans cos their dog is having a bloody heart attack.
I just want to get him to be less over the top, he's very friendly and sociable but over excited too. I'm getting very down that when I let him off he will no doubt get into trouble of some sort!
He's not at all vicious, but I hunk he's getting a reputation.

He doesn't need to learn his manners from other dogs, it is your responsibility to teach him and not allow him to practise this behaviour,

To be honest I only walked my dog in places where there was other dogs when his recall was great. At other times we walked in isolated areas to practice recall as well as during explicit training sessions with groups of dogs. When his recall was rubbish I tried to avoid other dogs so he wouldn't run off and not come back.

I still avoid other dogs as my dog wants to play with me and it is frustrating when another dog tears across a massive field and steals his ball or is three times the size of him and jumps on him.

Whilst you think I am being precious I don't want our fun training sessions to be helping train your dog with the possibility of him getting injured or having his fun spoilt because your dog had run off with his ball.

There are group training sessions that you can join if you want to interact with other dogs.

Frankly you sound like a nightmare , I also take 2/3 balls out with me and no I don’t want your tennis ball that your dog has drooled all over I want my own . Also just because my dog is off lead that doesn’t mean he wants to play / be chased , it means he will politely say hello and move on to get on with his own game and in this scenario you need to make your dog do the same not allow yours to keep harassing , chasing and taking other peoples balls .

I get totally sick of other dogs taking my dog's ball. She like her own ball to play with and she doesn't want any other ball. It particularly annoys me when a dog owner folds their arms and smugly says "you've seen the last of that, my dog won't give it back".

Not all other dogs want to play. Some dogs just aren't interested, some are old or frail or just afraid. A dog that chases them can be quite frightening. Just the other day a dog was chased on our park, straight out of the park and onto a road, where it was hit by a car. Now, who is to blame for that?

Well sorry OP but you need to train your dog.

I genuinely dislike people like you when walking my dog. She's a rescue and was badly treated your dog jumping about in her face stealing her ball is to you 'playing' to her it's absolutely terrifying and something she would react to strongly . It's highly likely you dog will get snapped at.

One of the main reason my dog is on a lead unless in an enclosed field is she doesn't have 100% recall yet even with her in a short lead we are still we are bothered by dogs running up to her in her face jumping all over her with me shouting who's bloody dog is this..... Followed by shouts of its only playing...
Often she reaches breaking point and I have to lift her up from the bouncy little buggers before she goes for them....

Check with dog owners if there dog is happy to 'play' or you dog may come out badly off. Ddog likes a quick sniff and move on anymore and it's in fight or flight territory....

Way to be helpful, LilCamper.

Actually, this play sounds pretty normal from his breed type just coming into the stage where they start to push the edge of the envelope, behaviour wise. It's a bit like the terrible twos. You are not alone. It is the most common time for sighthounds- especially male sighthounds - to find themselves in rescue.

Sighthounds can play rough: chasing, rolling each other, 'surfing' on each other's necks. Sometimes in total silence, sometimes with blood curdling growling and snarling. It's play hunting. Lots of other breeds don't 'get it'. Owners of other breeds tend to not be keen. Does he have any friends he can run with? Dogs he knows well who will kindly tell him when enough is enough?

If not, try joining a forum relating to sighthounds - many of the rescue organisations have them - and see if you can join a group walk or meet up where both people and dogs will have seen it all before and there are often older, wiser hounds about to offer the youngster advice. Even if there are not group walks near you, there will often be a member who could dog walk with you and offer some hints and tips.

Previously good recall is bound to come unstuck when there are far more exciting things to be doing for a pup; it will improve again. Take a ball-chucker so you can hurl 'his' ball back the way you have come to break his focus on the other dogs and praise and treat like mad when he comes back to you.

Do you have any linear walks nearby? By that I mean a walk where you progress along a route, rather than the sort of 'walk' where everybody drives to the park and then mooches about in the same field for a while before driving off again. You might find 'linear' walking produces less temptation to get into trouble; you can still take a ball or whatever and it normally allows you to meet other dogs in more controllable circumstances.

Also, do you go to training classes? Even once you've done the basics, they can be great for practicing recall with the distraction of other dogs nearby, and it'll make him think, which tires them out nicely!

I don't want my dogs speaking to other dogs unless invited as I'm busy training them manners of their own. I actually think it's more important for them to learn to ignore dogs than play with them.

Dog1 is 35kg, ball possessive and very likely to eat any dog who touches his toy. Dog2 is 30kg, very rough and likes to tackle dogs to the ground in 'play'. It would be really irresponsible of me to allow mine to behave the way yours does so I make sure they don't bother others.
How would you feel if I let mine chase and annoy your dog or is it only okay if they are smaller than yours?

Plenty of reasons why people don't want your dog pestering theirs to be honest.

Take him to a proper dog socialisation group or training class to learn manners.

Are you really complaining because other people and their dogs don't all relish your excitable puppy "playing" with them and stealing their toys, or am I misunderstanding ? Surely you don't think that a fair expectation? He doesn't have good recall if he doesn't come back when you call and coming back because he can't see you isn't recall. It also isn't other people's dogs responsibility to teach your dog manners.

I have a very friendly, playful young dog and despite being as certain as I can be that he would only "play" I would never allow him to annoy others or have him off the lead if I wasn't certain of his recall. I've had dogs race between me and my kids, pounce on my dog who despite being very friendly reacts defensively, dogs steal food from my kids hands and have lost count of the times I've had to pick my daughter up out of mud after she's been knocked over by excited dogs. None of these dogs were under control irrespective of how friendly their owners thought they were . Why should other people have to put up with an out of control dog whilst their owner attempts to train them?

I really think you have more work to do on recall and need to work at him learning to pass others respectfully. The suggestions of local training classes and groups are a good place to start

He shouldn't be running off at all. Even if he then comes back. He can't go running up to strange dogs and trying to play. He could end up injured.
Keep him on a longline until he's learnt manners. (And I agree with a PP. it's not up to other dogs to train your dog.)

@Mairyhinge you and I could be friends. I think you’re getting a hard time. You’re asking for advice you’re getting a lot of judgement.
I have a whippet who plays exactly as you describe he is also bigger than a lot of dogs and so super fast that it can be scary.
It is entirely my responsibility to keep my dog under control and to get him back (I’m not always successful with that but I try really really hard and I try not to take him off the lead when I think there’s a chance he’ll puss about).
If I am not happy about how my dog is playing OR how another dog is playing with mine I will do everything I can to call him back (his recall is good but not perfect). If I see another owner doing that then I do the same, out the dog on the lead and walk elsewhere. I actually don’t think there’s anything I can do right now to stop him running off with another dog’s ball EXCEPT do as much as I can to prevent it from happening (which means distracting him and calling him back before he’s twitched into chase mode).
I get a very mixed reaction from dog owners - lots of them encourage their dog to chase mine and be chased by him. Others rush in and tell me to control him (usually when they can’t recall their own dog and are afraid of the speed). To be honest, I think my dog had better recall than most other dogs.
You’re getting a hard time on here. Keep working on the recall, avoid ball dogs (that’s what I do), watch your dog (and the owners of the dogs that it’s playing with) all the times
And if you live anywhere near me then let’s meet up and do zoomies

The OP is getting a hard time because they think the other owners are, in their own words, precious because they should just suck up bad behaviour.

If an out of control dog comes and bothers us when we are minding our own business far away from them and the owner does their best to get them back and apologies then I sympathise and move on. However often they don't care, do the old 'but they are just playing and being friendly' rubbish and then get snotty with me. I spent a lot of time avoiding situations and walking in isolated areas when I could not control my dog so I have been there but that still doesn't mean I want another dog in my face or bouncing on my dog now I can walk in more populated areas.

@BiteyShark I get where you’re coming from but the OP is asking for help:
I KNOW he needs to learn to behave better, but what can I do

I reckon she’ll feel pretty despondent after reading this...
I’m in the same situation as her. My dog has suddenly become quite challenging. I am working really hard on it sounds like the OP knows what a total bugger her dog is and she’s trying to sort out his behaviour before it becomes a bigger issue...

OP wouldn't be getting negative reactions if she was just asking for advice on improving her dogs recall and behaviour but she isn't. She doesn't see her dogs behaviour as a problem, she sees the other "fecking precious" people not liking it to be the problem and expects their dogs to teach hers. That's the problem

@BiteyShark I get where you’re coming from but the OP is asking for help:
I KNOW he needs to learn to behave better, but what can I do

I reckon she’ll feel pretty despondent after reading some of the replies...
I’m in the same situation as her. My dog has suddenly become quite challenging. I am working really hard on it and I completely identify with the OP who sounds likevshe knows what a total bugger her dog is and she’s trying to sort out his behaviour before it becomes a bigger issue...

heidiwine the OP would have got more sympathetic responses if they had simply asked for help rather than spending 50% of the post moaning about people like me who don't want to interact with out of control dogs.

In fact there are lots of good suggestions. I still do group training because whilst mine has a solid recall it is dependent on me having a ball in my hand so I still go to training to cement that bond further. It is also useful for the OP to understand why people don't want their dog to 'play' with theirs or why it is important that their dog gets their own ball back rather than a swop (some dogs simply won't retrieve another ball which isn't theirs).

Also my dog didn't learn any recall from other dogs so it isn't actually required to interact with other dogs to improve behaviour. The best thing to combat recall issues is to work on the dog being only interested in you and you being more exciting that anything else including running around with any other dogs.

How old is your whippet Heidi? You sound like you’re having similar problems to me and Bluepuppy.

I took him to a whippet meetup the other day and ended up having to put him back on the lead because he was targeting other young whippets and knocking them over and biting their necks. The other whippets did not want to play rough but Bluepuppy just would not get the message. Other times he can be fine. Sigh.

Good grief. Where are all you perfect posters with perfect dogs who learned instant recall before they were six months old which has never failed, not even once? Where do you all go to walk where there are NO other dogs around for you to 'annoy'? There aren't many places like that around!

Nobody wants to be 'that owner' in the park but we've all been there at some point (and if it hasn't happened to you yet, it will do).

And I have to say there's a lot of attitude here; the OP DOES see the behaviour as a problem, the frustration is clear to read. If her dog is approaching on-lead dogs then yes that's an issue but when all dogs are off-lead then it's understood that interaction is to be expected and indeed should be welcomed. With, of course, the caveat that owners should be supervising close by. Dogs DO teach each other how to behave (indeed there are specialist training schools who have 'teaching dogs' for just this purpose). More to the point, dogs are social animals, most of which enjoy the company of their own kind.

Sadly dogs are being bred and kept more and more artificially and the art of dog communication is being lost. Some dogs are so basically deformed now that they're unable to behave like dogs or 'speak dog' properly. This results in more 'misunderstandings' and 'dog attacks' than ever there used to be.

OP, stop walking amongst the people you are at the moment and find some friendly people whose dogs enjoy a run.

This is a seven-month-old pup for heaven's sake.

Shambolical1 there have been suggestions of group training. Using a training dog in a controlled class is a good thing, thinking a random dog in a park is there to teach manners is entirely different

I drove up to 30 mins away to find more isolated places to walk when mine was out of control so yes I have been in that situation and it's shit and I wouldn't want to go back there but I never once considered other dog owners to be precious.

I'm ill and my head is too fuzzy to a proper reply but here's a few thoughts...

Get him enrolled in a decent training class, they offer a great opportunity for your dog to get used to being around others whilst focusing on you rather than them. They can be hit and miss so I'd recommend joining this FB group and asking for recommendations.

As much as you can prevent him from running up to other dogs. That may mean keeping him on lead more or walking in quieter areas/at quieter times. You could try a long line depending on how responsive he is but they're not always a great combination with sighthounds (as they can get up to full speed so quickly) and if you do use one it must be attached to a well fitting harness rather than a collar. The more he does it the more he'll keep doing it as it's a very rewarding behaviour for him. Secure dog walking fields can be a great option if you want some completely stress free walks where he can run and play to his heart's content without you having to worry about inappropriate interactions with other dogs.

Start working on his impulse control at home, the is a great starting point and a quick google or YouTube search for "dog impulse control games/training" will bring up plenty of other stuff.

You can tie impulse control to also giving him an appropriate outlet for that desire to chase and grab. (you can either buy them or make your own from a toy fastened to a lunge whip) are great for this, though you will need to take it relatively easy with him given his age. It's also worth looking for any clubs local to you that do lure coursing, it's an amazing outlet for sighthounds and they can start learning the ropes (gently) quite young.

What he does sounds like completely normal sighthound play but you do need to be sensible about letting him do it. During such fast and rough play it's very easy for accidental injuries to occur (such as nipped ears or being caught by a stray tooth) or for it to boil over into something more serious, especially if one dog isn't having quite as much fun as the other or either dog starts getting frustrated. If you're going to allow him to play like this then you need to make sure you can tell whether all participants are actually having a good time and when it's in danger of getting too over the top. You also need to be able to reliably interrupt your dog so you can bring the play to a sensible conclusion when you want.

OP, I agree with *heidiwine that you are getting a bit of a hard time on here - supportive advice might be more useful. My Dpup sounds fairly similar...bouncy, bouncy, very friendly & likes to play chase in a boisterous & noisy fashion. I don't wish this behaviour to become the norm so it's been the long line for us & for the foreseeable future. She is definitely getting there though - she's 7mths too.

OP I do often liken raising a puppy to parenting. And don't forget how often those with grown up children forget the challenges of parenting young children! 🍷 & 🍫

Apologies, cross posted with last few supportive replies!

Maybe Biteyshark; I was one who had suggested group training.The fact is you will meet far more 'random dogs in parks' than those in controlled conditions during the dog's lifetime and every meeting is an opportunity.

So long as they aren't all 'designer' crossbred beige fluffies who get picked up immediately or scream in terror, or those unfortunates which can't breathe, let alone play, and owned by people who expect a puppy to be perfect.

My dog can be an absolute arse with other dogs so isn't allowed off lead in public spaces. He however would love your dog and go absolutely bonkers to play with them, his favourite pals are all sighthounds of some description - I think because they are big and bouncy so if your ever near Teesside and want to come play you'd be welcome!

@bluetongue to answer ur question (without derailing thread I hope) my pup is 8 months. He’s definitely calming down and showing less of an interest in other dogs but once he’s started the chase it’s very hard to get him back... so obvs I try to avoid situations where he does that. He is also more likely to harangue younger dogs - which I’m sure is him trying to dominate/assert himself as top dog and (without any experience) I think that must be pretty normal dog on dog behaviour. That said, if other owners think their dog is under threat both of us have a responsibility to call our own dogs back and, I would expect the person who gets their dog back first to put their dog on its lead or hold it in place till the other owner comes to retrieve their dog. I identify with the OP because I don’t see other owners calling their dogs back when they perceive my dog to be threatening theirs.
This is my first dog. It’s a sighthound like the OP. I think sighthounds are different in their style of play and the speed can be pretty alarming to other dog owners.

Ok just to clarify.... yesterday when I posted I was pissed off, and fed up of my dog being labelled.
Thank you to the kind supportive posters who seem to understand!
He does go to training classes, and he has progressed well in all areas. The 'precious' dog owners are the ones who start screaming as soon as my dog even looks at theirs, if he is seriously bothering any other dog I do get him away, I'm not irresponsible, but round here, where I walk with him, there's loads of dogs and if they're all off lead then how am I supposed to know which ones are ok and which aren't?
Yesterday the dog that ran off with mine, the owner was on her phone the whole time ignoring him, whilst I was overly aware of where they were.
We do structured walks, he comes back to me when off lead every time,.
I don't "expect your dog to teach mine manners" what I mean is that's how dogs learn, they go to play and the dog will say when they've had enough, and the pup learns to back off.

Yesterday was frustrating. Bbc breakfast today showed the epitome of these bloody owners who pamper their dogs to the point of having all dogginess taken out of them.as shambolical1 pointed out.

I just feel in the few years since I had my last dog attitudes have changed and it's like dogs are off lead but don't you dare try to play with/ approach/ sniff or bark at mine because that means yours is unruly.
The ball thing, the one I would offer is clean and dry, I keep one in my pocket just for that purpose, and I would never be all smug and say ' you've no chance of getting that back', I would do my damdest to get it back, and have done.

I have a neighbour with a older dog and they are best friends but it's hard to co ordinate our walks so they can play. I do need to look at some local groups, or as a pp said, arrange for zoomies.
He's fast, very fast, and he needs to run.
Thank you all, I totally understand as dog owners how annoying he can be and how annoying I seem, but I'm not at all complacent about this, I am working on getting him to behave better!