7mo and tricky dog

[baskethouse]

My mum and dad have 2 dogs, one is large and bumbling and the worst he is capable of is pinching the sock off my baby's foot so gently he doesn't even notice. also, a 9yo yorkie x collie (seriously  ). she's about 6kg but she's very collie like in her behaviour and frankly, quite neurotic and can be snappy with other dogs, and she was recently attacked and injured quite seriously which has made her even more highly strung although physically she's fine now. she is however nothing but sweet and highly obsequious to all humans. she had often been the target of toddlers when out and about as she's little and fluffy and she's gentle and calm never any issues whatsoever. (she is 99% on the lead due to ring unpredictability with dogs who she thinks might like her stick/ball)

my baby is now 7mo and is very keen to explore. yesterday, she growled at him as she had a ball and he was coming in her direction. so nobody needs to tell me she needs to be PTS, rehomed etc as that is absolutely NA. she's never going to be left alone with him, he is always accompanied/supervises, she has plenty of baby free space (big house, 24/7 garden access) and she is a valuable member of the family.

what i would really appreciate is some common sense advice on how i can train her to understand he's not another dog, or cat, he's a human and therefore not a threat to her. she's never really known a child before (only those we pass by on walks) and she finds the whole thing a bit worrying.

any advice much appreciated, thank you! sorry for typos I'm being used as a human climbing frame right now.

Personally I would rehome the dog as it's just not worth the risk for your baby and it's not fair on the dog either.

You can't train her he isn't s threat. A child could inadvertently hurt a dog. And to her he IS scary.
They need to be kept apart. Stairgates. Playpen. Etc
Do you live with your parents?

oh and for clarity she lives with my mum and dad at their house. my baby lives in my house.

the dog is not going to be rehomed. i would like for the dog to be able to be included when the baby is visiting rather than behind a stair gate.

we will be installing a stair gate but i would really like to be able to show the dog that the baby is a human

Your baby is changing so rapidly that while you can work towards socialising the dog to small children, you'll have to remain vigilant. A crawler becomes a cruiser becomes a toddler becomes a rambunctuous preschooler, and just because the dog copes with one phase doesn't mean they'll cope with the next.

A common sense approach would be to have the dog where it can see you and the baby, but not reach you. Then give them something nice to do like chewing a bone or working on a kong. Help them learn to relax in the baby's presence, and positively reinforce good behaviour around the baby, but basically keep them separate to remove the risk of a confrontation over resources.

How would that help? The dog finds your baby scary. Whether it's a scary human or not it's still scary. And what makes you think this dog is convinced your baby is another dog?
The dog sounds anxious. It doesn't want to be included. It wants your baby to be kept away.

It really depends whether you live with your mum and dad or spend a lot of time with them. You can try approaching her with DS and throwing treats towards her every time you visit so she associates him with good things happening but what she is doing is resource guarding and it's very hard to train out of an older dog. You could also try rolling a ball towards her with your DS so she associates him with giving her stuff and not taking it. All this done from a safe distance so she's not threatened.

I suspect some dog trainer is going to come on and say you can, but given her age and the behaviour you've seen I would never trust her with your DS. That said, it's a big ask to expect your parents to destroy their 9 year old dog if you are only an occasional visitor and they could safely be kept apart. Very tricky as your DS gets older and can toddle around and open doors to other rooms where the dog is kept.

@Wolfiefan she definitely doesn't think the baby is a dog (she would be extremely hostile to a strange dog banging about her house). she's not sure what he is! I'm trying to think of a way to demonstrate to her that he is one of us who she would never in a million years show agression to.

Just get your parents to visit you at your house until the child is bigger , or when you go there shut the dog behind a gate . You do not live with this dog so it’s really IMO a non issue . My mum had snappy dogs whilst my dc were small and its easily manageable .

Thing is baby/toddler is a threat to the dog. With the best will in the world, small children can trip over, pinch, be rough, startle, hurt a small dog. Training it humans aren't a threat isn't possible. If you want to keep the dog separate, then you have to have either the baby/toddler or the dog in arms reach when they're in the same space.
The growl in this case is helpful, it warns you to be extra vigilant and pick up one of them. Not growling would mean there's no chance of the warning and the dog will snap.

thank you @SheRasBra yes we do frequently visit my parents and it is definitely going to be an ongoing job to keep them apart! teaching him to throw her ball for her will be what does it as that's genuinely the only thing she is interested in, but obviously he's a bit young still. in the meantime i suppose we'll have to stair-gate the ground floor.

I wonder if you're thinking in terms of pack theory a bit? As in, the dog needs to understand the baby is part of your pack?

If so I'd suggest that's a misconception. She's not disrespecting the baby or failing to accept them as a pack member, she's just freaked out by him and defensive of her stuff. So it's mostly about letting her acclimatise to him gradually, while managing/limiting their interactions for his safety.

I don't think you understand dogs at all I'm afraid. Just because we are human doesn't mean a dog will automatically never hurt us. If a child grabs or falls on a dog they could be seriously hurt. If a dog is startled it could snap.
See the recent post about an OP whose toddler got bitten on the face as it ran towards a parent.
Keep them apart.

hi @Wolfiefan don't have a bloody clue about dogs hence the post! wouldn't have one myself with small children full stop.

So do the safe thing. Keep them apart.

thanks @tinymeteor that makes sense.

Remove all dog toys then no reason for dog to have toy envy - baby gate or dog on a lead around toddler, won't be long until truth dc is walking and ddog prob change its manner and keep clear anyway!!

I wouldn't let your baby anywhere near the dog's toys - if she feels threatened by him, that isn't going to help. You can get pressure fit babygates at Argos (ie they don't damage doors and are easy to put up and down).

You can introduce the CARE protocol to desensitise the dog careforreactivedogs.com/ but it's a slow process and will need your parents to do a lot of training.

I would personally just keep dog and little one apart and avoid playing with toys around the dog when baby is around too. Once your baby is older, it'll be time to train the child to be around dogs rather than visa versa :)

There's good advice for children here too:
www.learnwithdogstrust.org.uk/be-dog-smart/

She didn't think the baby was a threat, she thought he might take her ball. To be fair, he might as humans do that kind of thing all the time and children do it all the more.

First things first, you should never leave this two together unless they are being actively supervised. Cornflake may be along soon and has posted a brilliant poster before now that shows the stages of supervision. To me active supervision means the adults are not doing anything else but watching the dog and baby. Not chatting, not checking their phone, not watching TV. Just watching the dog/baby. They are also educated on what signs to look out for that indicate the dog is uncomfortable. Yawning, lip licking, freezing, watching out the side of her eyes, lowering her head or keeping it dead still are all signs she is not happy and should all come before a growl then a snarl, then a snap, then a bite. Not all dogs follow every stage reliably so you'll have to apply an element of knowing the particular dog also.

Personally, I'd also remove anything of value (to her) when the baby is there. No balls, no treats, no toys. It helps avoid potential issues. Remove them a while before the baby turns up so she doesn't link his presence with the loss of goods.

To show a dog that losing the ball is not the end of the world requires patience and an understanding that she may never learn it reliably or may never apply the learning to the baby. However, it is worth doing 'just in case' it helps in any way - even if it just buys you precious moments before a snap in case someone forgets to watch them in future.

Do this by constantly swapping the ball for something of higher value. For a collie, that will be tricky as they can be a bit ball obsessed by the process goes a bit like this:

Throw something brilliant down on the floor a few feet from her when she has the ball (e.g. really tasty treats like cubes of cheese). When she picks up the treat she should drop the ball, you pick up the ball. Repeat over and over in variety of circumstances and (ideally) with a variety of people until she seems totally ok with this. Try working her slowly towards being able to remove the ball gently with one hand while giving her the treat with the other.

Why would you risk it tho?

user did you read the post? I'm not risking it.. I'm asking if there is any strategies I can try but that there is going to be a stair gate installed and he baby has never/will never be left with the dog. the dog is part of my family she's 9 years old. we love going to see grandma and grandpa, and the baby LOVES the dogs. so it's a shame to have to keep them separated. but now she's shown she doesn't think of the baby as one of 'us', who she would never snap at (she's always very happy to hand her balls over to any person as what she wants is for it to be thrown for her!) she is going to be behind a stair gate.

thank you @missbattenburg that is really helpful and we will try it (grandparents will be very happy to get involved as they don't want any incidents either)

i think i might at a good moment have a game with me and the baby and the dog. dog will spend literally hours bringing her ball to me unless i tell her "last one" then "no more" so we can do that while i've got the baby.