Am I being too soft? Professional trainer

[ClayPigeon]

Quick background: adopted a Romanian rescue pup 6 weeks ago. She's a small breed and just gone 6 months. She understabdably had some nervousness issues but is slowly improving. For example, she didn't want to go on walks initially but now really enjoys them for the most part, although she will stop dead if she feels frightened. Sometimes I've resorted to carrying her, like up and down steps or across the road to avoid the nervous stopping. We then resume with the walk. I'm really keen to use positive reinforcement methods and don't like to yank her around on the lead (unless absolutely necessary for her safety). However, BF feels I am too soft on her because I won't tell her 'NO' or pull her on her lead etc.

Anyway, we both attended a class with her this evening that was advertised as puppy socialisation with a trainer present. I wasn't sure what to expect but essentially the class was mostly about walking around and getting your dog to pay attention to you rather than the other dogs. All fine.

It was held in a large ex-mill and DPup was quite nervous in the environment so refused to walk. The trainer showed me how to pull her along the floor for 3 steps then stop and repeat. She was quite firm with the other dogs she handled and BF was looking rather smug that the professional was essentially backing him up. She told me the reason DPup was refusing to walk was because she is picked up too much. My understanding was that in positive reinforcement, you don't push a nervous dog too far or force them to do anything they don't want to do.

I now feel really confused. Is that what I'm meant to do when DPup refuses to walk? Drag her along the ground and never pick her up when it gets too much? I obviously want the best for her and don't want to do this if it's not in her best interests. The trainer explained that you are instilling confidence in the dog by removing the decision making or something like that.

So, am I too soft?

I have no experience of a rescue or dog refusing to move.
Forcing a scared dog to do something results in "flooding". They may comply at the time but you are overloading them. They don't learn to cope and can relapse later.
You're not being soft.
How much do you HAVE to walk? Can you go somewhere in the car, get out and offer treats whilst watching the world go by? Play in the garden? Hire a safe space and play off lead. Practice on the lead in the garden where the dog feels safe. Couple of minutes and treats to tempt forward.
You want an APDT trainer.
And group sessions may be too much for now.
It's not soft to want to be positive and work with your dog. It results in a happier dog, a better relationship and lasting effects.

You are absolutely not being soft.

Dog training is a completely unregulated industry, anyone can just set themselves up as a trainer/behaviourist with zero qualifications and immediately start taking on client or running classes. You could find a trainer to support any ideas someone might have about training dogs, including the use of force/shock collars/etc. but it doesn't mean those methods are either legitimate or ethical.

There are a number of organisations which hold their members to higher standards, including using force/aversive free methods. I would always recommend trying to find someone who is a member of at least one of these organisations.

I'd also recommend joining the FB group Dog Training Advice and Support which is run by a group of trainers who advocate using force free, science based methods. There's loads of great information in their 'Files' section, you can search through past posts for people who have similar issues or post yourself asking for advice or a recommendation for a decent professional in your area.

Thank you all for reaffirming my gut instinct on this. I feel terrible now as I went along with her advice for the 45 min session .

Until now I have gone at pup's pace and given her time to adjust to new situations and that is paying off since she is getting better and better on walks and in other situations. I'm reluctant to stop walking her as she really enjoys it, just the odd situation she's finds scary and so I carry her until we're past it. We have an enclosed garden where we play ball games etc.

I had hoped these socialisation classes would be good for her since she loves other dogs but gets overexcited and barks which can put other dogs' backs up. I though they would teach her how to behave around other dogs in a controlled environment.

The trainer arrogantly told me that she used this method with a previous dog and it never did it again for her or owner. Well, I took pup out after the class for a walk and she still did it a little bit so it hasn't worked at all. Ive now checked her website and it looks like she's set herself up as a dog behaviourist/psychologist having done 'some courses'. I'm not sure what to do now as we have pup booked in for january to do puppy classes with her. I will look for somewhere else.

Cornflake, I have posted on that FB page and read the files. It has some brilliant advice, it's just putting it into practice that is difficult without guidance. I had hoped classes might help my confidence but it's just made me doubt myself momentarily. I might actually post about the stopping dead and barking issues though and see what they recommend.

They are a great group and the behaviourists focus entirely on positive and praise/reward based training.
Perhaps a one to one training session for now? Bit more confidence building then in a group?
We do training and also go to a ringcraft and socialisation group. Do you know any friends with dogs to mix with?

I've found someone locally that offers 1-2-1 training using the Clever Dog Company method which appears to be force free. Anyone any experience with that company? Will also check the APDT lists.

Wolfie, the only person I know is my sister with a young pug X JRT who is quite submissive yet playful. They get on well for the most part but ClayPup can become overwhelmed by her. In fairness, she is doing much better now. Will still bark if she sees a dog but will listen to me if I give her a gentle tug on the lead and say 'this way' as I give her lots of praise for doing so. I just thought this class might give her an outlet for wanting to play with other dogs but instead had me doubting my methods.

Another thing that irritated me was she kept calling my dog 'Titch' as she was the smallest there despite not being the youngest. She's quite a 'pretty' looking dog and she was mocking 6'4 BF when walking her I felt she was making massive assumptions about me/DPup based on this when she is still a dog just like all the others there (labs, staffies and GSDs). I made her aware she is a Romanian rescue which she appeared quite interested in so she should in theory have understood her nervousness. Feel bloody awful for exposing DPup to that and wish I'd said something now

Dogs Trust Dog School - doesn't matter where dog was from. Really well set up to teach dogs to be calmer around others. They are also extremely experienced with dogs with complex histories and problems. They have 3 trainers to 6 dogs. All about building confidence and rewarding good behaviour - not using force.

Google for your closest dogs trust - then search their dog school locations (they have training classes at various places, not just at their rescue centres).

Thanks for the suggestion Swimming. I've had a look and there aren't any close enough unfortunately.

There is an APDT training class not too far away (actually run by one of the founding members of APDT) but as you can imagine, waiting lists are very long and the next class with availability isn't until February next year. I think maybe 1-2-1 might be the way to go for now.

Maybe it's too soon for playing! The "watch me" is what you want if she's barking at dogs. Don't get too close. Use a treat to get attention on you and away from the other dog. Have a look on the FB group Cornflake recommended. They will explain it better than me!
TBH this person obviously believes their methods work. You won't get anywhere by challenging them in their class I don't think. You haven't subjected your dog to anything. You tried it. It's not for you.

On the occasions we've got close to other dogs, she's played really well with most of them but a few have growled or barked back because she's barked first. The excited barking is a bit of a problem generally as she will do the same to my cats (but licks them and is gentle on the occasions she's actually caught up with them) or if adult DS or BF stand up and walk past her. That kind of thing. It's definitely excitement rather than aggression but a problem nonetheless.

You're probably right about the trainer. It's just grated on me that she was essentially mocking us to get a laugh from the rest of the group. I let her drag my dog around on the floor on two occasions and then me and BF were both doing it too (although she was happier to walk with us). I shouldn't have done it as it felt really cruel. She was literally belly on the ground and all four legs splayed out. Everyone else thought it was funny. The class was being run at a local indoor dog park which I'd like to take her to eventually. I just hope this experience hasn't put her off.

Just don't go there for a bit. When you do take the best treats ever and the best toys ever. You will be there. It'll be fine.

Thanks Wolfie. You know what it's like when you're feeling guilty .

Oh do I ever!!!!! I spend far much time feeling I'm failing as a Wolfie mum! Far better to admit something isn't right and not go back. But you couldn't have known that before you went.