Spayed bitch in heat again

[Venusflytwat]

I’m looking for some advice really.

My dog was spayed by my vet about 5 months ago, and came back into heat a couple of weeks ago. It is true heat, swollen vulva, dripping blood, licking herself, trying to get my (castrated and confused) male dog to mount her.

We’ve been back to the vet who said most likely some ovarian tissue left behind, and they are going to open her up again on Tuesday to try and find it.

Here’s the thing though: the vet said they would charge me again for a second spay.

I don’t think I should pay- I’ve already paid for the procedure once and they haven’t done it. I accept that mistakes happen but this is their mistake, not mine. I feel they should put it right at their own cost.

Am I being unreasonable here?

I am not sure what to do. She’s booked in for Tuesday. I don’t feel like I can take her to another vet at this point but I’ve lost confidence a bit here.

Is it reasonable to ask for a copy of her clinical records beforehand? I don’t want to get their backs up, but I am concerned they may alter things to absolve themselves of wrongdoing the last time. Does anyone work in a vet, is it possible to alter records retrospectively on most databases?

What happens if I pick her up on Tuesday and just refuse (politely) to pay? How does one complain about this sort of thing?

Any advice welcome please as I feel a bit blindsided so far.

I assume they are considering ovarian remnant syndrome. Firstly there is a blood test that can be done to check this is the case.
In my practice this has only happened once in 10 years we explain the owner that it is very rare, but it does happen. If the blood tests confirms ovarian remnant syndrome we cover the cost of that and the surgical cost. If the blood test shows it is not ovarian remnant syndrome it is charged as part of the investigation into the other conditions that can cause these signs.
I have investigated ovarian remnant about 5 times other 20 years only once has there been any ovary left behind the other causes varied.

I'd look at this from a consumer rights perspective - they're providing a service, but haven't done it wth reasonable care and skill (as a very routine operation, you'd expect them to get it right every time) which is a breach of your consumer rights. On that basis I'd ask for your money back from the original spay and go elsewhere using that money www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange

You can't refuse to pay after treatment. You need to resolve the payment issue before any treatment.

As above, you can’t refuse after treatment.

But if they are the ones who spayed her I’d give them a call and get them to do the ovarian remnant test. And make your case that as they are the ones who spayed her they can at least cover the cost until it’s proved otherwise.

Opening her back up straight away without testing first seems a little extreme IMHO.

Do they have a vet practice manager? I would ask to speak to them and say you are confused as to why you need to pay again 'if' it turns out to be tissue they have left behind.

I had a similar situation with my vet a few years back... they messed up a OP and dog had to go again- it was more of a cosmetic thing 2nd time.
I reached a compromise that I would pay for materials... it turned out to be about 1/5 of full cost. They gave me a full breakdown of what was used and I had the opportunity to check with a friend who is a vet nurse... definitely worth a try!

I agree with rightsaid approach it as a consumer issue. Get original spay refunded and go elsewhere. These are not vets I would trust again. Had they apologised profusely, explained it as LoneCat has and said they would cover full costs if it's that, it would be different. The fact they want to make money out of you for their error is disturbing. Also I'm very concerned that LoneCat says there is a blood test that will show if it is a small piece of ovarian tissue, yet your vets want to go straight into surgery - that cannot be in the best interests of your dog can it?

Thank you all, I really appreciate the replies.

Originally they were going to do the ovarian reserve blood test but then he rang me and said they’d changed their mind after talking about it, there was no need as she was “obviously” in heat and they were “pretty sure” they would find ovarian fragments when they opened her up.

They’ve categorically refused to refund the first surgery.

He has now said that IF they find stuff they missed that they won’t charge us but that if when they get in there they find scar tissue or anatomical anomalies that mean it wasn’t their fault they missed it there will be a charge, but that they will try to keep it “reasonable”.

I mean obviously, if she turns out to have something else wrong with her I’m not expecting to pay.

He let it slip that they only found one ovary last time. So chances are it’s the second one, surely. I wasn’t told that at the time.

I have postponed the surgery till next week, so my husband is around to come with me. I have a sneaking suspicion this vet doesn’t think much of women.

Would you ask between now and next week for a copy of her notes?

I think we will be changing vet after this.

I’m so sad for her she’s got to have it again. She’s a rescue and terrified of vets or anything except me really and she was just relaxing a bit :(

Sorry, I meant if she turns out to have something else wrong with her I AM totally expecting to have to pay.

Poor dog. How stressful for her and you. Honestly I'm not sure how much I could trust them. Can they find the other ovary but then try and get you to pay by claiming something else? (Nasty suspicious mind here!)
Try and keep it reasonable doesn't mean much of anything really does it? Can you get something in writing? A limit?

The ‘one ovary’ thing smacks of the other one was just tiny and they clearly haven’t looked hard enough for it. Your poor dog.

The fact that they didn’t disclose that information in the first place is disgusting as well. I would be thinking about complaining to the RCVS about that, to be honest.

Go elsewhere, if they find a missed ovary or remnant you will then have records of this and can open a dispute with them.

Just to add, even if they ovary is ‘abnormal’ they should still take effort to find it whilst the dog is open on the table - and fully disclose this information to you. They really should of rang you whilst your dog was under anaesthetic and made you aware, as there may have been a extra charge for what is essentially then a exploratory laparotomy, but at least you would of known.

The RCVS have a mediation service, I’m considering contacting them but I feel unsure at what point to do that- now, before I know what the outcome will be, or afterwards when they then try to charge me again. Maybe I’ll give them a ring tomorrow for advice.

I’m not trying to be a dick here, i get that mistakes happen. Human error etc. I just don’t feel I should be hundreds of pounds out of pocket for someone else’s mistake.

Sigh.

Here’s a gratuitously DM sad face photo of her :)

Best Daily Fail sad face ever!!
You're not being a dick. You shouldn't have to pay twice if they did do a rubbish job first time. They should also be made to look at training needs to ensure it doesn't happen again surely.
That's if they did miss an ovary.
Worth calling them at least.

Excellent DMSadFace from DDog.

On what grounds are the vet surgery refusing to refund the first op? Ultimately you paid them to remove DDog's reproductive organs, they've knowingly left some reproductive organs in there and didn't bother to tell you about it. Service has not been performed properly, to the point of negligence, and you do have consumer rights, just as you would if you'd paid someone to paint your hallway. Vet-specific advice here www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/complaining-about-misconduct-or-negligence-vets/

I'd be finding another vet, pronto, and if it meant I paid again then so be it. I couldn't leave my girl with a vet I didn't trust. THEN I'd deal with the original vet and try and get a refund if possible. But no way would I use the original vet - they will, of course, tell you that it was in no part due to their negligence, so you'll pay anyway...

If they only found one ovary ( this would be incredibly rare) they should informed you after the first surgery mentioning it now is a bit late.
Did they perform an open or laparoscopic surgery? If it was laparoscopic I would be questioning why when they were unable to find the second ovary they didn’t convert to an open technique to improve visualisation.

Do not let that vet open her up. They will claim it was something else. Write to them demanding refund under sale of goods act. Transfer vets immediately - they will get original notes. Once they have established what's happened you write to original vet again to again demand a refund under the sale of goods act.

I repeat Do not let original vet open her up. The reason they don't want to do the blood test is it would prove it was their fault, whereas if they open her up they can claim it was anything they like.

Our ddog also continued to have seasons after she was spayed.

After the first time, the vet advised waiting to see, as it could be a one off. She gave her antibiotics in case the season was fake and she had some kind of infection. After the second season, the vet agreed we would need to have ddog opened up again. The original op had been done by a locum who had moved on, and the vet wasn't intending to charge for the repeat op.

We decided to move vets anyway. We thought about a blood test but decided against it on the basis that whatever the results were they wouldn't in themselves solve the problem and she would need to be opened up again anyway. We talked over with the new vet when to operate and decided to do it while she was still in season. This came with the risk of excessive bleeding, but the plus side was it would be easier to find any ovarian tissue which had been left behind as it would be swollen and so easier to find. The operation went very well, it turned out that only one ovary had been removed first time round (apparently an inexperienced vet could have removed a lump of fatty tissue thinking it was the second ovary) and also the first vet had left too big a section of the stump of the uterus (I hope I'm describing that correctly!) which had developed an infection.

Ddog recovered from the operation very quickly, even though the incision had to be bigger than the first time around.

As ddog is insured I assumed insurance would pay for the second op. But it wasn't covered as it was an operation arising out of a spay gone wrong.

Good luck OP

I thought I’d come back and update. We stayed with the vet in the end and she had the procedure today. They found an ovary they previously missed, removed it, and we haven’t been charged. She’s home, sleepy and drugged up but wolfed down some food so she can’t be feeling too awful.

I really hope this is the end of it now. I feel so bad for her.

We may still change vet, I’ve lost confidence a bit now, but I’ll see how I feel when the dust has settled. Everyone makes mistakes, I guess. I dunno. Priority is just to get her better now.

Thanks all for the advice.

Glad she is ok after her second ordeal. I agree that everyone can make mistakes but the key is how they deal with them that counts the most.