Trainer said that his dog will bite other dogs who come up to her??

[Ermm]

So - just home from second training class with this trainer. (Pup is 8 months and did puppy school when he was younger and we are back for the next level).

So the trainer was talking about needing to help dogs to control impulse etc when around other dogs and learn to interact properly with other dogs. All very good and sensible important advice. But then his analogy was that if someone comes up to a person and they’re too in their face they’ll punch them and then he used his own terrier as an example. He said that if a dog comes up to my dog and is too in her face she’ll bite them. Which was fair enough.

Hmmmm. I get that a dog should be able to defend itself against another dog and absolutely agree that dogs should be trained to not annoy other dogs - but surely a trainer should train his dog to really only bite as the absolute last resort not just because another dog is annoying them??

Would that raise your eyebrow if a trainer said that??

Thanks all for comments. I’ve found a dogs trust course and am going to have some more 1-2-1 sessions with a trainer!

Oh also usainbolt - what reaction should i be aspiring to when Alf sees a dog - on leash and off leash??

(Oh and as I said I do always ask if its okay to approach another dog. My concern about the trainers comments was that he thinks its okay for a dog to bite another dog if he doesn’t like it approaching him. My view is that dogs should be trained to approach other dogs approprautely (which I’m trying to do!) but also to not bite if they dont welcome an approach. I actually disagree with Floralnomad - I think that her dog should be trained to not bite if he receives an unwelcome approach (obv unless its a self defence type affair and hes being attacked). And then Floral should manage the situation by taking him away. I agree it it bad of the other owner to let their dog approach if asked not to, but I don’t think just saying that he’ll bite put your dog on a lead makes it okay for her dog to then bite.

I’m not raising it as an excuse or defence that I don’t need to train Alf in terms of his interaction with dogs - the thread has just turned into a discussion about that! He clearly needs to be me. It was more that it just sounded a bit off to me and reflects a general vibe I get from this trainer that hes not the trainer for us...)

Thanks!

If you can train an anxious nervous dog that feels threatened and has probably given off many polite signals to an approaching dog but the approaching dog still goes up to the dog in a pushy manner, to feel comfortable with the situation and not react then please let me know how

The fault lies with the approaching dog not the dog that bites. Dogs will give off a lot of signals before they are forced to bite and the "the only want to play" dogs have a lot to answer for. They will have ignored the subtle polite messages and give the other dog no choice but to up the anti eg bite, to remove the dog from terrorising them.

Most reactive dogs are terrified and not aggressive.

I have inherited a reactive dog and he is amazing. He can now ignore all dogs, he will walk past dogs, he will walk away from dogs, he will do anything to avoid contact with dogs but there are still occasions when I have to intercept pushy and socially inept dogs to prevent him being put in a position that he is very uncomfortable with. I am happy to ask people to recall their dogs, I have treats in my pocket to throw down to distract approaching dogs. My dog is extremely obedient and will walk behind me to allow me to protect him but if a dog continued to hassle him he may still bite - he has been left with no choice.

Oh thanks usainbolt that’s a helpful insight.

So - what sort of signs should I look for to know that Alf is being a good doggy?? He’s definitely submissive in his interactions. Actually quite a few owners have commented that theirs dog normally dont like other dogs but like him (don’t worry - I’ve always asked before Alf approaches them!!). But I’m sure hes also irritated a fair view...

I really hope I can get him to the stage where he only approaches if I tell him its okay. But that isnt going to happen right away.... What is the body language I should look for to know that hes properly learning his doggy manners?

We have hung out with heaps of dogs. When he was little we spent lots of time at the puppy park off lead. And he has two besties that he hangs out with regularly with the dog walker. But we haven’t been to the puppy park for a while because he’s been sick and last time he was there he got floored by a Boxer and I freaked out a bit. Now hes older he doesn’t stick close like he used to and I’m worried he’ll just run off with the other dogs and not come back - and either get into a bad situation or pick up bad habits. So our interaction now is his play dates with his besties on Tuesdays and Thursday, onlead around town and on his very very long training lead in parks/the forest.

Of course we;ve started puppy school - but there the problem is hes so distracted by the other dogs that he spent last lesson crying because he couldn’t play.

So I don’t know whether I should be stopping him playing with other dogs so he learns not to bother them, or letting him play with them more so he can learn his manners more???

Eek...I’ve already sent off an email to book another 1-2-1. I just so want to make sure hes getting the best skills he needs to have a happy doggy life!!

(Just to clarify I didn’t freak out about the Boxer thing at the time in a way Alf would have picked up (in a surprising turn of events I was calm under pressure) - and Alf was totally cool about it - so that wasn’t an Incident that changed his behaviour or anything)

Can I ask why you want your dog to greet a lot of other dogs?

If he has his play dates and you interact with him dogs do not need to have a lot of interaction with dogs. They need to be happy in dogs company but not always have mad play sessions.

Signals to look out for in dogs are subtle, a head tilt away, a lip lick, yawning, standing very still (this is what you said Alfie does), walking slowly, slow tail wag, hard eyes, sniffing, walking in a curve towards the other dog, lying down with belly on the ground. Play bowing can also be a sign of uncertainty and a way of calming down the other dog .

If you watch many dog interactions you will see one of the dogs showing one of the above signals- many dog interactions are stressful for the dogs , while the owners stand chatting oblivious to the discomfort of their dogs.

Re the boxer thing - this is why I would not let my dog meet dogs I do not know. A couple of negative interactions will soon change Alf's reaction. He is already giving off calming signals eg lying down, being still, but the boxer ignored this. What can Alf do next if another dog refuses to listen to his polite requests. He may have to up the anti, lunge bark bite etc.

However I have not see any of this in real life so I am delighted that you are getting some advice in real life to help you.

Thanks - so helpful.

I dont want him to greet more dogs as such - just want him to get learn his doggy manners. My understanding was that they learn that from interacting with other dogs. So that’s why Im confused about whether I should be addressing his over friendliness by training him to not talk to other dogs or to have him talk to dogs (when I’ve asked!) so that they can put him in his doggy place.

Also - he seems to really enjoy playing with other dogs. So I suppose I want him to be happy and this seems to make him happy? So I feel mean I suppose stopping that. It did make me think when you said that about him stopping often when he sees other dogs. He doesnt seem to be scared or exhibit any of the anxious signs when they come close. He just really wants to play with them. Even with his besties hes always the one who wants to keep playing. I think hes kinda like that annoying person at the disco at 4am who wants everyone to keep dancing even why they tell him to go away....But maybe I’m reading him wrong which is entirely possible.

He’s really friendly with people as well. But I am finding that easier to manage and train for because I suppose I know how I want him to behave and I know what the rules are for humans! Actually - now that I think of it he does the same stopping thing with people - he’ll stop and he’ll clearly have decided that he wants to say hello to someone he can see. I cant for the life of me work out any pattern to how he picks people. So with that I assess the situation and sometimes let him say hello if they want to (making sure he doesnt jump) and sometimes we walk on. Which begs the bleedingly obvious question of why dont I do the same thing with his interaction with dogs. Huh. God I’m such a first time dog owner.

You sound like a fantastic first time dog owner who is asking all the right questions. Good luck with your new trainer.

My dog has about 3 good friends and a handful of others who he’s comfortable with but other than that he’s polite but aloof with dogs in general. He never bounces up to other dogs and really doesn’t like it when they do it to him but it takes a lot to get him to react. If he’s carrying a ball or toy he’ll drop it as soon as another dog comes close. If another dog comes up to him he’ll turn his head away and stand quite still. If the other dog play bows he’ll reciprocate and do a quick half circuit out of politeness but he reserves proper play for dogs he knows well. He has occasionally snapped at a dog that has persistently bounced all over him but he’ll have been telling them for quite a while beforehand that he’s not happy. He’s never bitten though, it’s only ever been air snapping or growling and I hope that he’s never put into the position where he feels he’s got no option other than to bite

thanks for that noitsnotteatimeyet. Helpful insight.

Just an update on this.

I think I have an overfriendliness problem too...Seems I want to stop and have a yarn with everyone as well! (I was all observational about our behaviour on yesterdays walk).

I think Alfie's overfriendliness isn't because of this - but oh my god what a chatty interactive pair we are!!!

We're going to start working on polite nodding and moving on.

Who's going to feed me treats when I do it right - that's what I want to know??

I think Alfie's overfriendliness isn't because of this - but oh my god I don't think it helps and what a chatty interactive pair we are!!!

Missed out crucial part of sentence.

I am practicing politely nodding as a I type.

I wouldn't be happy with a trainer who thinks that this is okay. Pups and younger dogs aren't always the best at picking up non verbal cues from older dogs and understanding boundaries. My dogs have good recall now, but not as pups, and approached and occasionally bothered older off lead dogs (I wouldn't let them approach dogs on a lead) who then growled at them (all fine - and part of their learning) so they learnt to back off - all good. Wouldn't have been thrilled if another dog had decided to take a chunk out of them and the owner thought that this was okay