Wise terrier folk - advice needed please

[Bilbomum]

I hope some of you knowledgeable terrier folk will be able to give me some advice please. Background – we have an 8 month old Welsh terrier, kids took four years to persuade me to get a dog they wanted a cockapoo but as I knew I’d end up doing all the work I gave in on the condition we got a welshie. The only dog I could imagine myself with, husband’s family have always had dogs but never a terrier; I had a boxer as a kid but not much experience apart from that & dogsitting for friends.

So we love him to bits and he is a handful (as I expected) good points: never aggressive with other dogs even when provoked; great with people/kids when out & about; mostly lovely with us at home although still has mad bitey spells when playing. We consulted a behaviourist who advised time outs when he uses his teeth, it works up to a point but hasn’t stopped it altogether but I can see he really tries to reign himself in sometimes so heading in the right direction. I think we’ve done quite a good job with his socialisation, he’s happy going to the pub and in social situations.

The bit we’re struggling with is the growling/air snapping. I know they are a vocal breed so I’m not sure if it’s something I should be worried about or just accept that’s the way he is or perhaps it’s just a teenage phase. We've had him from a pup but this has only started in the last couple of months.

When he doesn’t want to be messed with he lets you know, a growl generally but sometimes a snap (although not often). Took him to dog training last night and the woman bent down to move his paw out of the way of the lead and he snapped at her. She was very taken aback, I generally always get his attention and give him a ‘pawsie’ warning if I’m moving his legs as I know he doesn’t really like it but didn’t have time to tell her before she did it. She’d given him a thorough body check over when we got there and he was quite happy with that so he’s not unhappy being handled. He’s done it with us when he’s been disturbed when resting or when he’s settled in the car and doesn’t want to get out. I usually use a treat to distract him and get him to do what I want.

So big question – do we just accept how he is? I get the principle of reward based training but how do you let them know it’s wrong to snap. I’d rather have a warning growl than a bite obviously so presumably I don’t want to encourage the growling.

Sorry for the essay, at the moment everyone thinks it’s my fault as I chose a terrier

I've had three Airedales all very different personalities. I know welshies aren't mini Airedales but from my experience.... My current one is a handful she'll bite me (but never hurt me) when playing together usually just a "no" is good enough. She's a bit wild but hasn't seen a trainer. My other two had a few an honestly I just never saw any results (the counter surfing was driving me mad!!)

We have two Jack Russells who are both quite vocal, and we tried the Pet Corrector. Worked beautifully on the littlest one, and he'd stop at the sight of the can, but the older one who's the most talkative of the two was scared of it and barked at the can! My mum used it on her dog, and it worked super well on her too, so it seems my eldest is just the odd ball. Could be worth trying!

Well Bilbopups saving grace is he's not bothered about digging so garden is intact, he's also not a bad chewer. He's generally a delight it's just these odd moments when it's like he's a grumpy old man who doesn't want disurbing. Great to hear all your stories though at least I don't feel like I'm the only one who is dealing with issues. I think before kids I would have had tons of time for training but fitting it in with the general chaos of family life is much harder. He's never hurt anyone when snapping it's just been a general 'bugger off' kind of reaction. I'll read through and try take up some of your play ideas as distractions - thanks again!

Bilbomum - have you taken him to the groomer yet? I was planning a first trip when Elfpup is 5 or 6 months old.

Last time round I left it later ( he must have been about 12 months) and the groomer sent Elfdog home unstripped as "dangerous". Elfdog was never aggressive dog - the worst we ever heard from him was a growl and he was lovely with strangers so goodness knows what went on. This one will let me stay if I want to so I can be there with him for the sessions.

Hi Elphame - yes we had two trips to a groomer that I didn't particularly warm to. She just did a wash and trim to get him used to it and ended up muzzling him but as I say I didn't get very good vibes from her. For his first proper strip and trim I decided to go elsewhere on a recommendation and they were great with him, she managed to do everything and just muzzled for doing round his 'bits' so not a bad result. He did give a very big growl when we first went in so they realised he was a little challenging! He was in a really weird mood when he came back though and ended up snarling at ds when he grabbed him by the collar so we're going to tread carefully in future afterwards.

Well things have worstened here Just as I posted the message ab above I had a call from our dog walker to say that ddog had tried to attack her when she let herself in. He was barking when she got there which was unusual so I don't know if someone had been at the door before and tried to get in which was why he was being defensive. Never done it before with her. I just don't know what to do.... think neutering is the next option to see if it calms him down. Don't think it's fear based aggression so hopefully it won't make him worse.

Did he know it was her? That would make a difference. Welshies are good little watch dogs and will bark at anyone they think is an intruder if the family aren't there. If he knew it was her then yes I'd be a little worried too.

Would it be worth a trip to the vet to see if there is anything physically wrong? He's a little young for neutering at the moment unless really necessary. Elfdog was "done" at about 18 months as he was a prize escapologist , always off in search of the ladies!

Wish I could edit. I missed the bit about your ds - he shouldn't be snarling at family members; that isn't acceptable behaviour and you do need to tackle this now. Don't just tread carefullly around him as it looks like the aggression is escalating.

Can your puppy training teacher recommend a local behaviourist once the vet rules out a physical problem?

I'm not sure he knew it was her initially but he must have worked it out as she tried to get back in a few times (and she managed to get her boot stuck in the house as it came off in the fracas) so I thought he would have smelt it was her.

I don't think it's a physical thing as he's fine with me & other family, I gave him a pretty good feel all over the other night and got no reactions. Dog walker will try again Monday but it's his last chance with her as I don't think she'll come back if he does it again, and I can't blame her. I was expecting the teen phase to be bad but not like this . DH joined the fb group you recommended btw so thanks for that and thanks for the continuing welshie advice

If it's any help mine is running me ragged at the moment!

The little devil is going backwards on the house training and whilst happily weeing in the garden for a treat is now coming inside to finish the job. This is not on as he clearly knows what he is supposed to do but is just choosing not to comply. Typical Welshie!

Oh poor you, that's not ideal. I think it does sound like it would be good to see a behaviour specialist and personally I would consider castrating. I know there's conflicting information on when is best but with the behaviours you're seeing and with kids in the house I would be getting it done.

I've never had a Welshie, but have always had terriers and like a pp, am pretty zero tolerance with any aggressive behaviour. I find if you give an inch they take 300 miles. Don't get me wrong, we really focus on positive reward based training and the kids are very much taught how to behave round the dogs. We've had a very occasional warning nip when our very enthusiastic four year old has been too rough, but she knows why it happened and is much more aware of how to behave now. However I don't tolerate possessive behaviour at all and as much as the kids absolutely have to learn how to behave round the dog, I also expect the dogs to learn how to behave round the kids. Since they were very little I've used a very short sharp loud "ah" sound to stop any unwanted behaviour before it starts, lots of practice and reassurance with things being removed and returned etc.

I hope you find someone who knows what they're doing who can help you nip this in the bud. One thing I would definitely recommend is a stair gate. We have o e across the kitchen door and it means we can seperate the dogs whenever we need to. Ours are always put behind the gate when someone's at the door and they have to be completely calm before they're allowed out. Perhaps this would help with your dog walker arriving? Ours is a pet gate which is a little higher than an ordinary stair gate.

Good luck

Thanks Oops we'll definitely go back to the behavourist and speak to vet re castration. Open plan house so apart from stairgate to stop him going upstairs we can't have one. Think I might tie a bag of treats to front door so she can take his attention with them as soon as she walks in on Monday and hope that does the trick. He's never been aggressive with anyone at the door before, ds's friend came this morning and he happily greeted him. Just can't work it out - pity they can't speak it would be so much simpler .

Elph hope the house training improves!

Hi OP

I'd agree with other posters - I haven't had Welshies but have had wire haired fox terriers, so not a million miles away. Whilst they would growl and air snap at each other, they rarely, if ever, did it to people ( occasionally when old ladies/men there was the odd grumble).

Not suggesting you are as I can see you are getting a behaviourist but I'd be careful of excusing his behaviour - particularly potentially aggressive/snapping - just because he is a terrier and they are vocal. Whilst they are challenging ( which is so much of what makes them such great dogs ) many terriers are not snappy dogs.

There is a Facebook group 'dog training advice and support ' that may be a good place for structure advice from experts.
Castration isn't always a good way to deal with aggression and in many cases makes it worse - it depends on the reason for the aggression.