Struggling with stand command. Do we REALLY need to learn it?

[isthismummy]

Four month old Shih Tzu is really struggling to learn it as part of her puppy school training.

I can lure her with a treat from sit to stand no problem. However when I use the hand signal I've been taught (sweeping gesture towards the floor) she just lies down!

I think the problem is I was told to point to the floor for down command and gestures are similar? She's just cracked down, so now every time she's unsure she lies down. Obviously trying her best to please me bless her

Does she really need to learn it? It took six weeks to teach down command and I don't really want to waste another six weeks. I'd rather be concentrating on teaching her stay, down at a distance etc.

This is the first to time I've trained a puppy and my God it's hard! I found breaking my young horse in to ride a doddle by comparison!

She's only 4 months old and may get it later so I really wouldn't stress about it.

Disclaimer. My dog has never been taught it and I have never thought I wish he knew it. Whilst I am sure it's nice to teach her I wouldn't push it as it should be fun for both of you.

It's not something I've ever taught any of mine and, like Bitey, I've never yet wished I had done.

At that sort of age I'd rather be concentrating on stuff that might have a bearing on safety. So things like recall, wait/stay, an emergency stop, leave it, that sort of thing.

You can always train it later if you do decide you'd find it useful.

I wish I'd taught my dog the stand command when younger. It's taking ages now he's a grown-up and I really need him to stand on command for grooming (long Spaniel fur).

If you think it's the gesture confusing her, just make up a different one. It doesn't really matter what hand signals you use so long as they are consistent once dog has learnt them.

I think I will leave it for now. I'd definitely prefer to be working on stay, recalls (her recall is really good already) etc. She's doing so well for her age and I want it to be fun for her.

I think I will make up a different hand signal if I go back to it Blue She definitely finds the one I'm using at the minute confusing.

Thank you for your help everyone

I use a sort of 'come to me' hand signal into my hip to get my dog to stand. Sit is a finger pointing up and down is the finger pointing to the floor. You're right in that you've used confusing signals and now she's just seeing the down command. Does make it tricky to correct. She's so young though, I shouldn't worry too much just yet. I'm sure your dog trainer will be able to clear it up for you.

Stand is quite handy for vet's and grooming... but it's not an essential.

There's also no reason not to be working on more than one thing at a time.

We are working on more than one thing at a time. We've cracjed sit and down, so had now moved onto stand and stay.

Our trainer just suggested keeping the same hand signal, but making it higher! That hasn't worked as she's still very confused. Trouble is my trainer is Gwen Bailey puppy school and I suspect they are all taught a very set way of doing things.

I did originally start clicker training her, but not been able to find a class that incorporates that.

Thanks again for your help everyone

Try a different hand command if you want to persevere with it and if your puppy school get snotty about that I would be seriously considering finding a different one.

I've never bothered with stand. I think the important ones are sit and wait and come here.

I didn't even know there was a stand command

that is a dreadful attitude for a puppy training class to have. You work with the dog in front of you not stick to a textbook regardless of things not working! I would seriously consider a different puppy training class.

Look up your closest dogs trust, then search for their Dog School locations. They work with the dog in front of them and will use different methods to suit different dogs. Plus they have 3 trainers to 6 dogs, so can give a lot of input to each dog.

I teach the stand by teaching a back up.

If your dog can walk backwards - you can have the dog in a sit and by asking them to walk back from a sit will automatically make them stand

This shows how to teach a back. Then just ask for it from the sitting position - you have a perfect stand

Forgot to say whilst Dogs Trust is a actually a rehoming charity they now run puppy training classes (regardless of where you got your pup from) with the aim of getting people to have well trained dogs, thus fewer dogs ultimately ending up in rescue because of behavioural problems. (Dogs Trust also run adult dog classes and rescue dog classes too)

Shih tzus are lovely but also stubborn and can be notoriously hard to train so don't worry too much.

I like that video

One of the most useful commands I taught my dog is wait, as in pause until I catch up to him and touch him to release him.

I agree re the wait command. Useful in so many situations. Very helpful when on a walk with dog off lead and you can just get them stop where they are, so you can catch up before going around a corner. Also brilliant on a walk if I need to do something with DC and I don't want to worry where dog is but don't have time to focus on dog for a minute or two. Plus it was how I taught him to wait on lounge floor when I answer front door (in hall), without dog coming up to door to see who is there/jumping on people as they enter house, etc. Lots of brilliant uses.

When I said about teaching more than one thing at a time, I didn't think you were literally teaching one command...

Just that it sounds like you're being told to do them in a set order and only moving on when that one is done.

There's no need for that unless you need to build on the first one, so ok you're not going to get far with stay if there's no sit or down there, but, other than that add in anything you want to, you can be working on as many things as your puppy is able to handle and if she's not getting something there's no harm at all in going back to it later.

Things are rarely 'done' anyway, you might end up going back to sit to beaten it up or make it faster.

Basically if that's the only training you have access to, use the bits that are helpful and just trust your instincts more because you seem to know yourself that just carrying on doing something she's not getting isn't going to work.

Neaten don't beaten her, lol

usainbolt I tried the video on her, but she seems quite confused at being asked to walk backwards. Brilliant video though. Love all the dogs walking backwards at the start

BLUE I think the trouble might be that Puppy School is a franchise and they are trained to teach classes in a very specific way. I've looked into Dogs Trust, but nearest class is Camden which is a bit far away for me. There are several classes in my area that I'm currently looking into. Thank you so much for the suggestion though.

Fenella I've read Shih Tzus can be stubborn, but I don't think my girl is tbh. She's not refusing to do it at all-she's just genuinely confused. She's learned sit, down and her recall is already pretty good.

Started on wait command (although I use "stay" don't imagine it really matters? She's been pretty good so far. Also working on fetch. She'll do it in house, but in park she just runs after ball and then back to me without it

I've taught mine iron clad recall, sit, gently, leave! and down!

That's it. Sometimes I think I am a bit of a crap owner

tabulahrasa They are teaching in a set order, so I've definitely decided to mix it in the manner I find most useful. The stand command isn't working, so I'm concentrating on the ones she's learning faster.

Training is more stressful than I thought it could ever be though. I think it's even harder when you have a small cute breed. Everyone you meet just encourages bad behaviour in them. I had to ask a woman in the park not to encourage pup to chase her hands three times yesterday. She was a dog owner herself and really should have known better!

I think that's totally fine MrsGame You've taught them a lot more than most dog owners. I'm constantly amazed by how badly trained most dogs are when I'm out and about with mine!

Started on wait command (although I use "stay" don't imagine it really matters?

Not at all. It's whatever comes naturally to you, all the dog needs is consistency (so if you used wait some times and stay sometimes it would obviously confuse the dog). Stay takes more conscious thought for me to say than wait, which is the only reason I use wait rather than stay. But you really can use any word or hand signal for any command - it's literally what you personally find easiest to say/do and for your dog to understand.

Shame dogs trust don't run any of their classes near you. I agree with a pp, whilst in the classes you are currently doing, take the bits that are helpful and ignore the bits that aren't.

MsGame I don't think it matters how many commands a dog has been taught as long as the owner has enough control to prevent issues (like running over to and jumping up strangers or harassing other dogs)