Dog lead training/equipment/advice!!!

[Maddogs]

Hi I have 2 springer pups (4 and 5 month old). One is on a harness as he is a massive boy and pulls like a freight train. My little girl is on a collar and lead and following in his footsteps

They both started off walking well with a loose lead and really enjoy off lead time and have good recall.

My problem is getting from home to the park and back again. I want a solution that isn't overly draconian and will work with both of them.

Any ideas? I've researched different harnesses, tried direction changing, looked at leads with bells on , haltis etc. What do you use with your excitable dogs? I want to nip this in the bud. Full grown I'm going to struggle in icy or slippy conditions and I want to be able to walk at my pace! Help!!

You need to research litter mate syndrome and walk them separately. Train and play with them separately. This could be a disaster.
At that age they really shouldn't be getting much in the way of lead walking anyway.

Very unlikely this will change unless you walk them separately I'm afraid.

Ok I can do separately short term. And will look up litter mate syndrome. They literally go over the road to the park and back on the lead. They are mainly off lead. But I am willing to try anything!!

Ok just had a quick look at litter mate syndrome. They aren't from the same litter but obviously close on age. They are bonded but also incredibly affectionate with the family. They already spend limited time apart and seem to cope with that. My boy is very bonded to me and the little girl to my daughter.

I was planning to do agility with girl dog and gun dog training with boy dog, but they are too young at the moment. Some good ideas on the web site though. I already do some obedience training separately and will need to increase this I think.

It doesn't matter if they are from the same litter. They need to be trained and played with separately. Ideally one adult to take responsibility for each dog. It's really not a great idea to take two pups on. Are you an experienced owner?

Yes but previously single dogs. Different ball game with two.

They are house trained, affectionate, learnt sit, down, off, round and round. Recall is good. Exercised daily. It is just the lead walking I'm struggling with.

You need to get help with them. They must be walked and trained separately or you may end up having to rehome one.

Ok that'll need some sorting out but it can be done.

Any advice on appropriate leads? Just collar and lead?

At this age I would not be going far at all. I use a half choke and dogmatic too but then my mega pup weighs over 50kg!
Have a look at FB group dog training advice and support for loose lead help. I'll admit it's something I struggled with. Very short sessions to start with in garden. Reward loose lead. Treat! Use a word. I use close. Literally a few steps.
Harness can help. The head collar etc things don't actually cure issues. Just help to manage.

My boy is 18kg and I thought he was big makes yours seem huge!!!

She's not a year yet!

There's some great advice about teaching loose lead walking (including some useful videos) here and Kikopup on YouTube has a whole playlist of loose lead walking videos which are well worth a watch too.

I'd definitely start using harnesses with two points you can attach a lead to (one in the normal place and one on the front) and use them with a double ended lead clipped to both attachment points. I'm not keen on collars at the best of times (for all the reasons laid out here) but it's definitely not a good idea to attach a lead to the collar of a dog who pulls.

You really need to be walking and training them separately as much as possible and I'd continue doing so until you've got them through their adolescent phase and are both consistently behaving well on their own. Dealing with teenage selective deafness in two dogs at once is not likely to be a fun experience and ignoring you will be much more rewarding for them if they've got each other there to run riot with.

I walk all of mine on dogmatics and a flat collar with a double ended lead. I train them to walk properly on the flat but have a dogmatic as a backup if they should lunge or something as they are 40kg each and I would end up flying through the air

I agree with walking separately, attend some training classes too. If they are pulling to get to the park, stop until they relax and then repeat over and over. It will take forever but they will get the message eventually!

It's impossible to lead train two dogs at the same time.

Work on each one in turn. Walk forwards and as soon as the lead is tight stop, if the dog keeps lunging on and ignoring you walk backwards, the moment the dog gives you his attention reward and, ideally, walk in the opposite direction. You will go more backwards than forwards for a few weeks but if you are consistent they learn.

In general I find a harness with a front clip (between the front legs) is the most effective one for dogs that pull.

Just another thought: you say they go to the park and back, but I assume you mean that is only one of the many walks they go on? At this age this need to be out and about seeing the world as much as possible, keeping in mind that exercise should be age appropriate (short, calm walks a number of times a day in different areas are ideal).

Yes they go to the park, the country park, short drive away they go to different footpath by a river. They go to the pub (usually after a walk), they've been camping in Scotland, they go to my mum and dads. They get out a fair bit! The daily walk is the park over the road with the other ones thrown in for good measure!

Tried individual walking tonight. It went well. I view it as a success that I got one or two strides without having to stop and turn around with each of them!! I noticed that off lead they both reduced the distance they were comfortable away from me. Girl dog also met a massive Alsatian without her friendly mate to hide behind!!

Thank you for all the advice I'm still unsure on which combination of equipment is going to work out for me. Has anyone heard of perfect fit harnesses? It has a double d ring (front and back) and a double ended lead. If anyone has tried one are they good?

Perfect fit harnesses are fantastic. It might take a couple of goes to get the sizing right but they do work.
I have seen dogs incredibly stressed and straining in a collar but instantly relax in a perfect fit harness. I use them with Halti double ended leads. You may not need to use the front clip forever, but it can give you really good control if you need it.

That all sounds very positive OP! You will find that together they will feel more secure and roam further away so it is very important that you reinforce the recall with each one individually otherwise one day, when they are teenagers, they might run off together. It is also very good for them to socialize with other dogs without each other.

The positioning of the ring I need perfect harnesses is ideal for dogs that pull. Some other designs have a short tightening section right for that ring as well so there is a negative effect to pulling.

I walk all mine (except the Chihuahua) on Gencons, but love the look of the Perfect Fit harness for the two smaller dogs who don't pull on the lead anyway. I've attached a photo of one of the littlies as he was asked to model a Gencon .

Mine don't pull after a few years of walking on the Gencon with plenty of treats, etc, but as I'm sometimes walking 5 at a time, it makes it easier if they're all under control on the Gencons if they spot a rabbit!