Why do other owners get so offended if you pick your dog up?

[Isthismummy]

Pondering this question after an unpleasant run in with another dog walker in park yesterday.

Woman was walking her terrier and wiemeraner and I was with my 11 week old, still very small shih tzu. Both her dogs were off lead (she walks them round the streets off lead as well, but that's another story) They both see my puppy and start galloping full speed towards her. Woman is about 20 yards away and makes no effort to recall them. I pick puppy up as a preventive measure. Woman shouts over to me "it's OK, my dogs are friendly" I politely call back that whilst Im sure they are, my pup is very young and small and I don't want her potentially frightened. Woman shouts back that I'm "storing up a lot of trouble for myself with that attitude"

I won't repeat my response. I used to have the same problem when I had my papillion. Surely any sane person can see that it's only sensible to be cautious when their dog is huge and yours is tiny? I have no issue with sensible introductions when both animals are under control, but I won't risk my pets safety just so some idiot owner isn't offended.

Have any other small dog owners had this problem? I'd forgotten how annoying I used to find it, but Ive been sharply reminded now I have another dog!

It's a difficult one, you want your puppy to socialise but you not want a traumatized dog either.

As the owner of a small dog I can sympthise OP. My dog has been chased by other dogs and on one occasion was rolled over by a large dog and ended up screaming in fear several time. People often don't control their dog's and a small dog is easily injured.

I posted recently on a thread about my dog be surrounded by three large dogs that were leaping around her. Fortunately she's an adult and pretty confident, but I'm not sure a small puppy with have dealt with it well and would probably left completely terrified.

All you can really dog is judge the situation and act accordingly. The puppy party idea a pp mentioned is a good idea, and Cornflakes suggestion of throwing treats - so simple, but how many of us would think of that - could well defuse a potentially scary situation.

I have tended to leave my dog on the ground when other dogs are around but at eleven weeks I can understand your worry.

Oh dear, sorry about all the typos.

Yanbu - people who let's there dogs of the lead without proper training in recall are idiots, your dog is small and fragile and very frightened it shouldn't have to stand there while two big dogs invade it's space, potentially step on the dog or worst comes to worst if the dogs are aggressive.. Sorry to be blunt but your dog would be dead, 2 large dogs who don't listen to there owner would kill a small puppy. I wouldn't take that chance, you do need to socialise your dog but do it with dogs that are more near her size, alot calmer and on the lead in case any of the dogs show aggression. Then build her confidence then introduce big dogs. You now you were right some people think they no everything because they read about dog socialising on frigging Wikipedia when in reality they don't have a clue.

I can understand why you picked your dog up but it could well teach it to be scared of other bigger dogs.

My dog has pretty good recall and will come back when I call him. I do find though that if he is fairly near the other dog and the owner picks it up he is less likely to come back when I call him. It is almost as if he is intrigued as to why the dog has been picked up.

I know a dog trainer/behaviourist and she says you should not pick a small dog up if another is coming towards you.

Picking up does send the wrong message, it also means that the dogs vulnerable stomach area is expksed to an inquisitive larger dog and can make tjem feel even more scared.
However, you do need to judge each situation individually, and if you feel your dog is at risk then of course you do what you need to to keep him safe. I think as others have said providing you do proper socialising with him so that he is a happy confident dog and aren't too overprotective, then you should be okay

I've a large dog and two small dogs so I can see both sides. I think sometimes people with small dogs seem to think that they don't need training, partly because they can scoop them up. There are various opinions on the 'damage' this can do, like effectively telling the dog that big dogs are scary and/or the higher physically they are the more 'dominant' they are thus they will become agressive (leading to the label of an armpit piranha). There are a few yappy small dogs I know who seem to think it's fine (well I suppose their owners do) to run up to strange dogs, circle them, barking away, showing teeth and scaring owners and dogs alike, but they were "only playing". At some point they have to learn that big dogs can be good but if they walk under their feet, and our feet come to that, they risk being stood on. Of course the opposite is true, big dogs need to become aware of their own size and the need to be careful. All dogs off lead need a reliable recall and some manners. Given that you are being careful to socialise your pup and plan to phase the scooping up into your arms out I think what you chose to do is understandable. Stuff what the woman said!

Another small dog owner here, 4kg, I always pick my nervous 3 yr old up when a larger dog comes running up to us fast and sometimes get funny looks from owners. My nervous dog stays within 3 metres of me. If she sees another loose dog she freezes and won't move. She has previously been knocked off her feet more than once, it must have hurt. I just think if a larger dog did go for her, she wouldn't stand a chance, quite often the owners aren't in sight or not paying attention. She went to puppy classes and was socialised but she's been scared by a few unruly dogs. I would choose carefully who you wish your pup to meet so he has positive encounters. Ignore any owners comments, it's their problem. Enjoy your puppy.

Socialisation is about positive experiences.
If it's going to frighten your puppy and potentially put them off greeting other dogs then pick them up, who cares what others think.

I have very large dogs and am never offended by what others do. I'm too busy concentrating on my own!

fenneltea That exact scenario happened to someone I know. She picked her small dog up and the other dog tore its stomach open. The dog was lucky to live.
The owner though now purposely walks towards you in the park with her dog happily on the ground and then when other dogs go to greet her dog she gets hysterical and screams at you to get your dogs back.
I always think, 'but you've got the whole fucking park yet every time I see you, you start walking towards all the other dogs'

Picking up your dog will make it insecure around other dogs. If your dog doesn't want the other dog getting in it's face it will "tell" it. Picking up your dog encourages the other dog to try and get your dog back down so it can interact with it, hence jumping up.

I know it's tempting to pick your dog up but it's not good for socialising it. If you had a bigger dog you couldn't do that, and your dog needs to be treated like any other dog. Your puppy will need to be in situations where it could potentially be frightened, so it can learn not be be afraid and gain confidence.

When you pick up a small dog or a puppy you are making it very vulnerable when other dogs are around. its genitalia are exposed as is its underbelly. This will make it frightened and its body language is likely to be unfriendly because of that. Other dogs will jump at it and this will invariable cause a problem for all concerned. When I had my first puppy I asked the vet about this and all of the above was explained to me. I was told NEVER to pick up up a dog or puppy when other dogs around or out of fear or panic. Your fear is injected straight into the dog and can cause real socialization problems for it. Even very young puppies will socialise with big dogs if you let them.

You are NOT storing up trouble if you pick up a small dog if it is being hassled by larger dogs.

Think about the situation you are a weeny dog and a massive huge dog comes running up to you. You are left to your on your own to deal with this situation. What can you do - run and hide, you get chased by this massive scary creature or you show aggression to fend of the dog - or you just freeze from fear.

If you leave the dog on the floor you are only causing the dog to have negative associations when meeting new dogs. You MUST make sure interactions with dogs are positive not scary. If they are scary then damage limitations is best and DO pick up your dog and remove yourself from the situation.

Little dogs get killed by big dogs frequently.

Little dogs do need socialisation with calm, safe big dogs not just random out of control "they only want to play" big dogs.

Vets are great at medicine but many vets have limited behavioural training. So do not use vets behavioural advice as gospel- as above thread it is incorrect.

This vet had excellent advice and behavioural training and was a dog owner into the bargain. Some owners like some parents will always be over protective and that is not good for the dog or child unfortunately, much as they mean well. My own personal observation over many year is that those with small dogs and puppies that do follow that advice not to pick up their dogs for all the reasons given above do not have the sort of problems that those that pick up their dogs do. Many little dogs are very bouncy enjoy rough play and often initiate it. Fear is contagious and goes straight from owner to dog. It is often the case that the little dogs that get into fights with other dogs (as so many do) sadly are the ones that have been constantly picked up like this. Without realising it owners create these problems by preventing scent bonding and normal interaction by picking their dogs up.

I will happily disagree with you anneannielouise .

There is absolutely no evidence that dogs that are untrained and unruly are dogs that have been picked up - they are just little dogs that have not been trained.

Your vet has not got excellent advice and behavioural training as what he is saying is outdated and incorrect.

The key thing to remember that if the dog is already scared picking them up and removing them from the situation will reassure the dog.

If you pick up a small dog that is not frightened it may be a bit frustrated that you have ended its game but no more than that.

This is not my opinion but backed my scientific evidence.

videos on reenforcing fear

helping fearful dogs

The above are easy to understand articles and videos. There are many detailed and academic documents but they are long and hard going I can post them if interested.

I find this quite fascinating in my line of work - the general public is beginning to get the message about dominance being incorrect and also treats are good for training but it does seem the small dog issue is one that is taking longer to get up to date with the science

Old thread…….………………

Lots of scientific evidence that says otherwise and my own experience too. Little dogs that are picked up in these situations are always frightened if there are other dogs around. They have not chosen to show their tummys and genitals - you have forced them to do so and that makes them very unhappy. I have seen this happen so many times and it always ends up the same way with a freaked out small dog owner screaming abuse and frightening their little dog even more. It is very sad and one of the reasons why parents are advised to stay out of the playground. Those little dogs need to scent bond and learn to socialise and they cannot do that when picked up. When they are allowed to do so they are often the ones ruling the roost around big dogs.

I never picked my little dog up but thankfully most owners of bigger dogs have been fine.

“They have not chosen to show their tummys and genitals - you have forced them to do so”

Why are you working on the assumption that they’re upside down or being swung round somehow? I mean I can’t pick my dog up securely, but he’s 38kg, I could, when he was shih tzu sized.

“Those little dogs need to scent bond and learn to socialise and they cannot do that when picked up.”

And what do you think they learn - from dogs with bad social skills?...

Anyway the dog in the OP is now over a year old, how did you even find this thread? And what’s the point in giving puppy training advice to someone who if they even see it now has an adult dog...

Most small dogs are not anything like 38k and that is what this thread was about. You are right out of context. My biggest dogs do not weigh that amount. You are not even looking at you own "scientific evidence" in that they are not looking at dogs that are socialising with other dogs in "normal" situations. You are talking about dogs that seem to be overweight with some sort of psychological problem that perhaps are not even ready to go to the park. My fully grown labradors are 28 kg and that is the weight that my vet (who you prefer to ignore) tells me is a good weight for a big dog. Your "experts" are talking about "training situations" in large enclosed area. Wake up. We are talking about normal daily situations with small dogs, medium dogs and big dogs. Of course you would treat a rescue dog differently. This post is not about that. In Britain our dogs go to the park. Not the dog park. We do not have "dog parks" because our dogs socialise with us alongside many children of varying ages doing va variety of things and other adults. We allow our dogs big and small to play together with children and adults (many of us playing football and cricket and just running about). I run with my dogs several times every day. They are never on the lead unless they are near the road in line with our laws and run beside me. My big dogs and my small ones. Like Scandinavia, we do not like the idea of dogs being left alone at home on their own all day and tend to have more than one in a family. We do not think that paying a lot of money for a "scientific expert" compensates for our lack of humanity and parenting skills.

I always pick up my small dog as there have been a couple of occasions where she’s been frightened by big boisterous dogs and smaller dogs have attempted to hump her. I politely explain to the other dog owner that my dog bites (she doesn’t but it stops the other person being offended). I have often thought what if she was a biter though? Why would you let your dog approach a strange dog with no knowledge of its behaviour?

“You are right out of context.”

No, it wasn’t - what I was saying was, my dog would have exposed bits due to his size, but, as a puppy, I could lift him very easily without his stomach being exposed, so I’m unclear as to why the assumption would be that a small breed would be being somehow waved around rather than held securely.

“My fully grown labradors are 28 kg and that is the weight that my vet (who you prefer to ignore) tells me is a good weight for a big dog.”

Um, my dog is a larger breed than a Labrador

If you allow a puppy to learn social skills from dogs that rush up, they’ll learn bad social skills, as I said last year you can either let it learn from the badly socialised dog, or be hurt or scared by the badly socialised dog or pick them up and hope to avoid that, but risk them getting scared because you’ve picked them up - you’re pretty much in a no win situation at that point.

Biters are created by humans in the main. I guess you go to "Dog Parks" too? Big boisterous dogs and little boisterous dogs rule happily in the parks I go to. Shy dogs play nicely with them too. Everyday I see this under my nose.

As long as there are stupid fuckers who let their dogs with no recall off leads I will move my dog out of harms why as I see appropriate. My dog as no recall despite my best efforts and is always on a lease. He is very friendly and loving ad trusting (would invite a burglar in, show him around, advise on the best things to take) but can also be bouncy. Similar sized dogs can get a mutual sniff and bounce but small dogs need protected and large dogs can be aggressive.

I am avoiding problems rather than storing them due to the fucking ineptitude of other dog owners.

Old thread but still valid.

The only right answer is the one that the owner of the small dog is happy with. I really hate being lectured by other dog owners when I am out even when I am not interacting with them. It's no one else's business whether an owner views picking up their dog as the best course of action or not as they have to assess the situation and keep their dog safe. Having sat in the emergency vets on many occasions and seen dogs being bought in with other dog bites I am tired of hearing the 'dogs will sort themselves out and it's just noise' or in this case 'little dogs will be fine and need to socialise with all large dogs to learn social skills at all costs'

I had to pick my dog up as a puppy twice because of out of control off lead dogs. On one occasion one owner said oh yes he doesn't like puppies. So I consider that to be right for my dog no matter whether other dog owners think it's right or not.

Strangely enough those times have not affected his social skills as he was allowed to interact with known nice dogs.

Sometimes you do meet "dangerous" dogs and have to act accordingly but that is the exception not the rule. Picking up a small dog or puppy every time YOU see a big dog and you get frightened sends the wrong message out. You are encouraging that pup or dog to feel that it ALWAYS needs protection when there are other dogs around and that is preventing normal social interaction and scent bonding. The fear YOU feel is being transmitted to your dog. I have even seen some people bring a bitch on heat into the park (under UK bylaws you are not supposed to take bitches on heat to public places like the beach, park etc) and then pick their in season dog up and scream at everyone else to keep their dogs away. Some parents do the same and yes those children are the ones that grow up scared of all dogs too. Fortunately most dog owners and parents do not behave like that. Pups like children really need to be allowed the freedom to socialise without over parenting them. Some pups will be more reluctant than other but usually they do become confident with patience and time and owners that ignore the urge to over protect. In the part of the UK whre I live it is very common for people with small breeds and new puppies to approach other owners with big, obviously friendly dogs and ask them if they can help socialise their dogs. I often exercise with both big and small dogs and have been approached like that many times and it is a lovely way of meeting new people and their dogs. The socialisation that occurs in the early weeks (until about 4 months) is vital and that is one of the reasons why you need to be really careful about where you get your pup from. I have bred puppies (for friends only) that have grown up living around the corner from their parents and all their brothers and sisters and it is great to see the way they all interact so fearlessly and happily without ever having been picked up. Those that pick their dogs up as a matter of course will understandably feel defensive about doing it and if you have been doing it for a long time it is a habit that is going to be very hard to break sadly.