Puppy raw feeding! Change to dry?

[burntoutmum]

Hi

We're getting a puppy next Monday - she's a cross Miniature Poodle x Mini schnauzer, currently she's raw fed ( her breeder raw feeds all of her dogs)

Is it easy to keep going? If we decided to give her dry puppy food how would we do it? I'm guessing gradually otherwise it'll upset her stomach?

If we choose to switch over, are any brands highly recommended?

I have easy access to most supermarkets and pets at home

Thanks

Wolf, we've been given the go ahead by the hospital to get a puppy - his immune system is improving and will be normal soon ( he's recently finished chemo- the planned puppy was what kept him going!), however I'm abit anxious about putting him at higher risk by feeding something that's risky

Tbh all the claimed benefits of raw seem to be seen in those dogs fed high quality kibble. No Mr whippy poos or "doggy" smelling dog here, etc.

There is a terrifyingly large range of feeding options out there though, making it hard to choose. Some of it comes down to individual dogs (like some people do better on X food plan but others do better on Y food plan).

I have young DC and I wasn't happy with the bacterial risks of raw meat. It is also quite a bit more expensive if you buy the balanced raw meals and easy to end up with an unbalanced diet if you don't.

Also as others have said kibble allows for good enrichment, that you couldn't do with raw. I would never feed out of a bowl again now - instead I use various Kong's, treat dispensers that dog has to tip and move around to get the food out of a little hole, scatter feeding, as training treats, hiding some around for him to find, etc. There are loads more things I'm going to try too. It's great to see the mental challenge and enjoyment he gets from it.

Blue, there's so much choice!! I stood in pets at home yesterday and had absolutely no idea where to start. There's also such a difference in prices!!

Burnt

Take a look at www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/the-dog-food-directory.

As general guidelines:

1. Go for nothing less than a 3 out of 5, but ideally the higher the better.
2. Look for one with a named meat source as one of the first three ingredients and avoid anything with maize or wheat as many dogs are intolerant. (http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.kvma.org/resource/resmgr/Files/SmallAnimallA-05-Cutaneous.pdf)
3. Be aware of tricks used in the ingredients list to make it appear like there is more meat. For example James Wellbeloved has the same total rice percentage as Skinners Field and Trial - but because JWB splits it into "brown" (20%) and "white" (19.7%) varieties, lamb actually appears as the first ingredient. Rice appears first on Skinners' ingredient list as they only use brown (40%).
4. Avoid anything that says "meat derivatives" as this is just whatever is cheapest. Similarly "cereals" could be anything.
5. Take a good look at the ingredients list - the fewer highlighted in red, the better but try to avoid them completely. If you do pick a food with reds, the lower down the ingredient list, the better.
6. Ignore the reviews - this is about finding what's right for you and your dog, not what didn't work for someone else.
7. Get the best you can afford but be aware that price is not an indication of quality - there are plenty of poor foods with a top price tag (for example Hills and Royal Canin, which people are led to believe is good because vets sell it - it's not the worst food out there but you can get better for the same price, or less).

As a rule of thumb, almost everything you buy in a supermarket (Own brands, Wagg, Pedigree and Bakers) is nutritionally poor - filled out with wheat or maize which dogs do not need nutritionally and many are intolerant of - though some supermarkets have started to stock better quality stuff like Lily's Kitchen. Look at the ingredients, not the brand name.

If you absolutely MUST go the supermarket route, Harringtons is probably the best of the bunch but under all circumstances AVOID BAKERS - it's little better than poison IMO (see the additives list below).

Beta is another food that seems to be recommended a lot but it's actually almost as bad as Bakers - top ingredient is "cereals", second is "meat derivatives".

If budget is a concern, then in my view one of the best price to quality ratios is Skinners Field and Trial (the hypoallergenic range only) as it's about the same price as Bakers/Pedigree/Wagg but far superior quality (as an added bonus it's a proper working dog food, so is VAT free).
Your dog can eat it even if they are not "proper" working dogs, however it is only really suitable if your dog is expending the energy - for example I know a lot of flyballers feed it.

I'll freely admit there are even better foods, but I fully acknowledge that not everyone can afford that, and Skinners F&T and CSJ No Grainer are good compromises on the price/quality front.

When changing, kibble, change gradually - do 25/75 for a couple of days, then half and half for a few more, 75/25 for a bit longer and finally fully on to new. If looking to change a puppy, its sometimes better to keep in the same food as the breeder for a couple of weeks until they have settled in.

OTHER FOODS

RAW - Is a good option, but it does not suit everyone.

BREED SPECIFIC FOODS - These are a gimmick. Compare the ingredients between the Labrador food and the Westie food and you will find the only difference is a few additives right at the bottom of the list - ie in such small quantities as to be irrelevant. The ingredients to worry about are at the top - ie the ones making up the bulk of the food.

TAILS - Not a terrible food but its really another gimmick. It's not nearly as tailored as they'd have you believe.
It's a bit like those "Which boy band member should you marry?" flowcharts in the pop magazines - your answers will take you to a "match" out of how ever many varieties they provide. You could easily do the same with Skinners or CSJ foods (or others but these are the ones I am familiar with), due to the variety they stock.

Regarding choice and price you could use allaboutdogfood.co.uk for dry. Put in your dogs details and it gives you an idea on quality and price per day as high quality does not always equal high price.

Whoops forgot to add the additive list

Fairfax, that's great, thanks!

Fortunately I have very easy access to a pets at home so have plenty of choice. Within reason, the price isn't an issue, it's just so difficult to work out why some are so much more than others!

OP use that website to try and gauge a few good quality ones within your budget and then buy a smallish bag and check it suits your dog.

Burnt

I've found that price means very little. I think some companies play on it to make out they are better when they aren't.
There are good and bad foods in every price bracket. As I said above Skinners and CSJ are probably the best ones in the lowest price range and both actually beat some foods that are higher in price.

The only downside to both is that neither is available in P@H. Skinners is on Amazon though and you can get a regular delivery to your door.

I have Amazon Prime so that's an option

I'm just looking at Natures menu, do you have any opinion of it?

I've used it. I like it. But my dogs could be completely different to yours.

It is a pre made raw though, which I thought you weren't keen on?

Do I not need some sort of Raw to wean her over to dry? I'm thinking I could get these to do that?

TBH it's not something I've ever done. I know you can go straight to raw from kibble, but not sure if it works the opposite way

Quality ingredients don't come cheap but at the same time there are many foods which are sold for high prices despite having low quality ingredients (royal canin, hills, etc.)

Look at the meat sources included things like "meat derivatives" basically mean whatever scraps /leftovers from other meat production they can get cheapest at the time and the derivatives can come from any animal and will vary across batches. Where as fresh, dried or frozen specific meat is better quality.

Some companies only use human grade ingredients too.

It probably is best to have some raw whilst she settles in. But I'm not sure about the switching over period because it's generally not good for them to have a mix of kibble and raw but normally food changes should be gradual with slowly mixing less and less original food with more and more new food.

My puppy was brought up on raw, and we tried it for a while, but it really didn't work for us (we have hardly any freezer space for raw and no local suppliers who do small amounts). So we switched to Millies Wolfheart very successfully. We did it gradually, mixing it in with the raw in increasing proportions of MWH to raw. He still gets the odd raw chicken wing, and an egg (complete with shell) once a week.

There's nothing wrong with feeding a mixture of raw and complete dry/wet food. The reasoning behind not mixing them often comes from the idea that complete foods take longer to digest, "trapping" the raw in the stomach and causing issues however what evidence there is suggest the opposite is true and complete foods are actually digested more quickly than raw. It's one of those things that has been repeated so often it's become a "fact" despite having no scientific basis and plenty of dogs thriving on a mixed diet.

The Natures Menu pouches like the one in that picture aren't raw, they're a complete (cooked) wet food. They are good though, I use a lot of Natures Menu non-raw stuff for my dogs.

I have worked with dogs for years too as well as being a dog owner. My bulldog thrives on raw food and didn't do well on kibble.
It is easy to do and hygiene is not hard with it. I have a really useful storage box bought on Amazon that perfectly fits 3 nutriment packs (1 defrosted, 1 defrosting and 1 straight from freezer). This prevents leaks in fridge. Have a spoon separate for dog food and wash hands and bowl after each meal.
I have a 17 month old and she has never picked up anything from his food.
You can order raw online easily, delivers to your door. There's plenty of brands out there that make frozen complete meals.

If you do want to change to kibble, which I don't recommend for at least a week or 2 to give him a chance to settle, as others have said avoid the super market brands (pedigree, bakers etc) they are like feeding KFC each day. Just full of additives. Find a good quality grain free kibble. Even if packs are more expensive, you usually feed less so works out cheaper in the long run. Have a look at all about dog food website. There are also raw feeding groups on fb - raw feeding uk - ask for any advice on there.
On a side subject, when my boy got really ill, I asked the vet if I should put him on kibble for his stomach and she said the raw was as close to nature as he could get and the best for him. She doesn't push food in anyway so was happy to hear she thought positively of raw feeding.

Cornflake I thought the issue with mixing raw and kibble was down to the bacteria that can be in raw required the stomach to be more acidic than a kibble fed dog's is (theory being the kibble reduced the overall acidity in the stomach). I've never researched it myself though, as I don't want to feed raw, so not sure.

I feed Millies Wolfheart kibble for breakfast and then with his dinner he either has Millie's and a Natures menu pouch mixed or Millie's and some wafer thin turkey .

I'm just changing our new pup to kibble from raw.

Both dogs will be on Orijen which I really rate. The older dog is in great condition and loves his food.

I found the faff, space in freezer and grossness of raw food a pain and much prefer feeding kibble.

I was looking at all the foods in the pet shop the other day - so much choice

Good luck

Hi there can I ask please how you transitioned from raw food to kibble? I currently have a puppy at 9 weeks old who I’m trying to swap from raw to kibble or wet food and I’m unsure of how to do if, could you please give any advice ? Thanks !

I transitioned mine a couple of months ago. I just switched. Last meal at night was raw. Breakfast was kibble. She ate it without issue and we had no problems.

I would keep her on what the breeder has been feeding for at least the first few weeks. It's a lot for her to deal with, moving to a new home so changing her diet now could badly upset her stomach.

Then its a gradual change from raw to dry, use allaboutdogfood to find what's in your budget.
Petsathome isn't always the cheapest or the best place for food, there's plenty of independents that'll deliver.

I am a big advocate for raw feeding, I had one ridiculously fussy dog who hasn't had a single issue since I moved her to raw and another who was weaned on raw. They are in excellent health, but we also have a rescue large breed who is fed on Eden dry.
He's doing brilliantly after being moved off the cheap crap he came to us on.

Raw or kibble can work for any dogs imo, it's just finding the right brand.

I also don't buy the bacteria argument, don't you handle raw meat for yourself? After I feed the dogs I wipe down the sides and wash my hands and we've never had any problems!

It's not just a choice between raw or dry kibble though, there are plenty of cooked meat meals too, such as Nature's menu previously mentioned