To crate, or not to crate?!

[burntoutmum]

Hi

We pick up our puppy next Monday so are in the process of setting up the house ready for her arrival!

We're torn on the idea of her having a crate! Is it a good idea? Would you go for a small one then move on when she grows? Is it a temporary thing ( I could borrow one) ? Would you put her crate in a room that normally wouldn't have people in it - so maybe utility/kitchen, and then a soft bed in the lounge?

Any tips would be great! Thanks

Regardless of whether your dog ultimately will spend his life sleeping in a crate or in the middle of your bed (or anything in between) I do think it's very important to crate train.

If your dog ever has an injury or illness that requires complete crate rest, then this will be much easier if your dog already sees the crate as a comfortable, secure, lovely place, in which she will happily spend long periods.
If your injured dog isn't crate trained then the experience of complete crate rest can be much more difficult, less effective as a recovery aid and even downright distressing.

We have previously had a dog for whom the veterinary specialist prescribed three months (!!!!) of complete crate rest! He was fine! We had to up the ante a little by devising lying-down activities & brain exercises to keep him a bit occupied, and he also had lots of hands-on physiotherapy, massage and grooming, but he was already very well crate trained, and the experience clearly wasn't distressing for him (or us).

My mums dog had never been crated prior to his crate rest for cruciate ligament damage . He was fine with it , he's used to his soft basket which was put in the crate and he was given lots of company , it was no hassle at all .

I don't thinks it's an either/or decision tbh.

Crates have their place - I've found ours useful when DHound first joined us. He was never locked in to it after the first couple of nights or so, but he liked it (I always made sure to surreptitiously throw some treats in to it from time to time, it had the world's most comfy bed in it and was covered with a blanket to make it a den and was huge - he liked it ).
We got rid of it after a while because of it's size.
We still have one in the static caravan we have to make sure he sleeps in his bed and not on the sofas...

I think the absolutely crucial thing with crates is that they should never be used as a punishment/discipline and that locked-up time should be kept to a minimum.

I hate putting the dog in a cage, I can't help but see it that way.

Mine
Have been glued to me since the day they came when they were younger, I thought that's the point of having a dog for company.

I do see the safety point though.

No crates here. We bought a crate and a playpen for our miniature dachshund but I just couldn't bring myself to leave him in there. He looked so miserable.

He has full roam of the house. A daybed in the sitting room and a snuggle bed outside our bedroom door plus a rug that sits on the end of our bed where he likes to lie with us on lazy Sunday mornings or have a post-breakfast nap if one of us (DH or I) are still in bed.

We've never had a problem with him chewing or destroying things. As a puppy we'd leave him with loads of chew toys and treats and we'd often find him sleeping on the sofa or his daybed when we get back in. Of course he had a few accidents on the carpet but they were rare as he had special scented wee pads to do his business. He was fully house trained by 7/8 months.

He does like to get in to my bathroom bin so I need to make sure my bathroom door is closed but that's about it.

Why do the same misconceptions about crates come up every time?

They're not for shutting a dog away while you're there, if a dog is miserable or upset - you've introduced it wrongly. The vast majority of time, they are open and dogs absolutely do choose to go in them to rest over and above other available beds.

They're shut in only for safety reasons as needed and if medically necessary...

Thanks everyone! Some really interesting ideas

My friend has offered to lend us their old crate ( is this a good idea? Thinking of it smelling of her dog - I will buy new blankets, cushion etc) so we can try. I hate the idea of shutting her in it though , but agree with the thought that it's good for her to get used to her crate as she'll no doubt need rest after we have her spayed?

Floralnomad You might not be able to housetrain a dog in 2 days, but I assure I did. In fact I housetrained 2, using the same methods, getting up several times a night for the first couple of nights, watching them like a hawk for the first week or so (I had taken time off specifically to settle each dog in). Neither dog made a mess in the house ever, and they are now 6 and 8. They don't have a crate now due to lack of space, but patience, diligence and awareness are the key to good dog training, both for keeping the house clean and for general obedience.

If you reliably housetrained in 2 days why were you watching like a hawk for a week or so , reliably house trained means dog knows to ask or waits to go out not that you are watching like a hawk . My dog had very few indoor accidents but I wouldn't have called him house trained until he knew that we never pee / poo indoors without me needing to watch him or tell him where to go .

I do think peoples view of house trained differs. Some people view it as when the puppy doesn't have any accidents but they still keep taking it out etc. Others (me included) view it as the dog asks to go out every single time without me ever promoting it.

I do think peoples view of house trained differs.

Yes, like 'baby is sleeping through' can be anything from 5hrs/night (official definition) to 12hrs+

No doubt some dogs and some owners will 'like' the concept of a crate more and others less; personally I think it has its place but is not the be all and end all.
If introduced well, it is not a doggy prison but a safe den that the dog likes and choses to go in to.

berunoutmum, I think a loan of a crate would be a good idea to try it out.
You should get a used blanket or some other form of bedding when your dog comes to live with your anyway and you can make it a really comfy home for them - random treats were what worked for us, put in when DHound was not looking, so he got in to the habit of checking the crate just in case there was a goodie.

At our caravan he now 'takes himself to bed' when he's had enough and we simply close the door over when we go to bed ourselves.
When we get up we open the door - sometimes he comes out, sometimes he just opens one eye and has another snooze...

I've never used crates and am not a fan. However, my dog is minimally crate trained in the sense that we use one in the car. The other time she's encountered one was at the vets. She was fine.

The reason I don't like them is that lots of people end up over-using them and as a substitute for training, whether it's focused house-training, how to settle, or behaviour around visitors/children that's needed. Too many people start out with good intentions and seem to end up sticking the dog in a cage when they encounter a problem. I'm sure they can be used well but too often they are not, and are definitely NOT a substitute for training.

We have a couple of crates dotted around the house. My dog does like his and will sleep in it during the day with the door open, in fact the cat often joins him. We shut the door when he was a puppy but only shut it now if workmen etc are around. He has other soft beds around the house and likes the sofa if he is covered by a blanket. They can be a useful addition to dog life and have worked well for us. We have primary aged DC and I want the dog to have his own safe sleeping spaces.

My pup left her crate at 6 months When she outgrew and moved into her big girl bed as we call it. Yes cages are like cots and establish good sleeping patterns and it gives them there own sleeping space which they love, we put Ddogs bed where her cage was and she sleeps through the night from 10-9am before she wants breakfast and the toilet so for us it was a great success
They will whine the first night or two but thats normal and i found sitting by the cage while she napped during the day helped her and putting toys and treats in it to make it a fun cosy space

It also helped with toilet training Dog was toilet trained in two weeks no problems which we credit the cage with and lots of sleepless night and perseverance.i was told by the vet not to use pads or anything because it just confuses them and prolongs accidents. And we were told not to buy a cage thats too big for the dog because they will use one end as a toilet and the other for sleeping which is wrong
Dog should have enough room to stand and turn about easily but no bigger

We crate

Maximum of 4 hours though when we pop out as she can't be trusted not to chew.

My old dog used to see his as a den. Door was left open 24/7 and he would nap in there during the day and sleep in there at night.

New pup is not so keen on her crate yet.

She goes in willing if I throw food in but she wouldn't stay in there's like old dog would have done

Our dogs have always had crates and they became their 'safe place' to get away from things when the house got hectic or they needed or wanted 'space', or we needed them penned up for some reason. Our late Lab especially used her crate for 'comfort' when she got older. Our current dog (a Dachshund) doesn't spend much time in the crate other than when we go out as we've found he barks like a maniac when he's left loose in the empty house but is content and quiet shut in his crate. He has our late Lab's old crate so he has plenty of room.

I really advise crate training your dog. You can always decide later that he/she really doesn't need it or it doesn't benefit your lifestyle.

We crate trained our now 2 and a half year old dog when he was a puppy and he loves it even now. We recently tried letting him sleep in his bed in the lounge overnight and he cried until he was tucked up in his crate.

It is much easier to crate train then realise it's not required any more than the other way round.