Great Dane a labradoodle?

[Wolfiefan]

I met a lady who was enthusing about her new puppy. A Great Dane labradoodle cross. Surely this is a nightmare waiting to happen?
When will the KC step up or the law be changed to properly licence breeders. Not just a tick box exercise.
All potential parents should be health tested. A recent owner I met said "oh yes health testing? The puppy was checked by a vet!" That's not what it means.
I'm not against cross breeds. But putting two animals together as their offspring will be cute and make you money is irresponsible and just damn wrong.
What can we do? How do we educate people?

Do you realise all pedigree dogs started off like this? Mixing breeds to get one that looked right or was good at one particular job? It's no different, other than a cross breed (or in this case mongrel) isn't being given a stamp of approval. Most pedigree dogs have inherent health problems, look at flat faced breeds for example. They should be made illegal too?

The issue is cross breeding two pedigrees without health testing means you can get issues from both sides.
And some people believe that labradoodles won't cause allergies. That's very different to a breeder who health tests then breeds sprockers to work with.

What's it got to do with the KC? They're not registering crosses...

Maybe they should. A decent cross breed can be just as healthy (or quite possibly more!) than a pedigree.
Councils "register" but it is just a list.
KC registered doesn't offer any guarantees it isn't a puppy farmed dog either.
The public aren't being educated to make better choices.
Dogs are suffering.
What's the solution?

I do hope the dam was the Great Dane at least.

We used to breed Danes and they were bought all over the world. We had to turn a handful of potential buyers away after finding out they had mastiff types of the opposite sex at home and they asked questions like if Danes could be made aggressive, were they good in a fight and were they good guard dogs. Eeek!

These poor Labradoodle Dane puppies may be looking forward to a life of Labrador hips and a weak Dane heart. Poor dogs.

Honestly? God knows...

People seem to get puppies on a whim, they don't bother to think about whether breed traits will actually fit into their lifestyle, to do the most basic research about health or how to go about getting a puppy from an ethical breeder. Even though it takes seconds to google whether labradoodles actually shed or the main beeed traits you still get people buying poodle crosses because they don't want fur in their house or dogs that are almost guaranteed to be a nightmare in novice hands and then acting all shocked when they shed or display breed traits.

People breed dogs to fund their holidays and nevermind whether they're breeding for predictable traits and healthy puppies, it's literally throwing the nearest entire male at their in season bitch.

So, who knows? It'd take about 6 sets of legislation to cover all the issues that are going on with dog breeding and puppy buying...

That's my thinking. Mum must be a Dane.
I'm absolutely NOT against cross breeding but far too many seem to be indiscriminate, no health testing and no thought to the actual dogs that result.
I understand sprockers were bred to work. But why a yorkipoo etc etc. what's the intention?
Plus the issue of puppy farms and unregulated breeders.

X post.
I would settle for some legislation as a start. And some education.
There seems zero will to do any of that.
Makes me so sad.

Im shocked at SIL's "designer" crossbreed (though she steadfastly refuses to admit it is in fact actually a mongrel at a bloody crazy price). She paid £450 and it's grown up to have bow legs so bad its legs look like a large circle and where the front feet point straight out to the sides and an underbite that sticks out almost an inch. The dog is a lovely pet but fuck! He's got some serious defects. An breeder with the proper dog breeds and actual health checks would never have bred him and his litter mates. It's almost cruel!

"That's my thinking. Mum must be a Dane."

Possibly, I've seen a litter of lab x Dane pups advertised before where the mum was the lab, she'd died having them...so of course you still go straight on gumtree to sell the puppies.

Sorry, I'm not in a good mood today, lol, no particular reason either.

I grew up with a rescue cross breed. He was awesome. Obviously a mistake litter so no health testing. My mum looked into the worst of each breed before deciding if he was something we should take on.
Breeders should be looking to breed out problems. Yes that includes breathing problems of frenchies etc.

Tabula. I'm not in a good mood either!
Don't start me on bloody gumtree. No living thing should EVER end up on there.
That poor mum dog.

Mum must be a Dane.

I wouldn't count on it. A while back I saw a litter of French Bulldog x GSDs and the FB was the dam.

The KC are honestly worse than useless, they can't even sort themselves out regarding pedigrees because they're too worried about upsetting the old guard and seeing a drastic drop in the money coming in.

The Assured Breeder Scheme, which held so much promise, is a complete joke. There's an assured breeder of Great Danes who has happily taken money from a novice bitch owner to use her stud dog despite every puppy from that mating having a 25% chance of being a colour which comes with a very high risk of ear and eye defects. At least one puppy in the litter was blind and deaf. The KC know about this (I actually emailed them about it and they swore blind they're "take appropriate action") and yet the breeder in question is still an assured breeder

They're resolutely sticking their heads in the ground regarding the health effects of extreme brachycephaly, instead preferring to bring in new rules around non-recognised colours as if that's the biggest problem in those breeds.

The KC as it stands will be the death of pedigree dogs.

But random breeding of your family pet is seen as socially acceptable. It shouldn't be anymore acceptable than chaining your dog or leaving it outside 24/7 without any interaction.

As long as people continue to pay money for cute puppies then others will find it impossible to turn down easy tax free cash.

And yes, saw a GSD x 'goldendoodle' the other day ...

Sadly, some people seem to want a unique designer dog and the fancy name to go with it. These are the people who don't care about the parents (welfare, health & early life of pup). Some unscrupulous people buy into this fashion and supply to desired item.... sorry puppy.

Equally, I think it's impossible to police dog breeding. If you start licensing breeders and charge them for the privilege, I fear, that we would loose a lot of good healthy breeding stock in this country. Resulting in a small gene pool and giving rise to more health problems through inbreeding. (Because that is why we need health testing in the first place.)
Crooks will always be crooks and go "underground".
Supply would outstrip demand very quickly (as it already has, hence breeders with waiting lists). This will result in more import puppies, with more health problems, spreading diseases like rabies. (I know, this is already happening on a smallish scale!)

The Kennel Club is not an government organization, it's a private entity, designed to keep records of dogs, setting breed standards and organize dog shows (all kinds). So not sure why/ how they want to police "illicit dog production".

I think sometimes, NM are very harsh on "small scale breeders". Calling them all sorts of names and greedy. In fact, these breeders have an important role in keeping a healthy gene pool for their breed. They may not show or do doggy sports, and the mum is just a pet. But, please do your math, out of 10 puppies, you might get one show quality. And if you take 10 show quality puppies, only one can win 1st prize.
They, if done properly, provide good quality family pets. As the puppies will be raised in a family environment often with children, they will be exposed to people from an early age.

So, unfortunately it's up to the puppy buyers to do their research, know a bit about dogs and only buy puppy if 100% comfortable.

"But, please do your math, out of 10 puppies, you might get one show quality."

If someone is breeding for show quality dogs and only getting one in ten that are, something is going very wrong in their breeding plans, most puppies should be of that quality.

Cornflake after the story I saw about the KC registered breeder who allowed siblings to breed and demanded a vet put them to sleep very little would surprise me. The vet refused so she tried to do the job herself in the most horrific way. The KC didn't take away her registered breeder status.

I've seen a litter of lab x Dane pups advertised before where the mum was the lab, she'd died having them...so of course you still go straight on gumtree to sell the puppies.

I wouldn't count on it. A while back I saw a litter of French Bulldog x GSDs and the FB was the dam.

How can people be that stupid?

I do think dog breeding should be fully regulated, only registered breeders allowed, accidental litters should have to be recorded and all dogs regardless of breed/mongrel should have to have their breeding recorded so bloodlines can be monitored. All relevant breed health testing of any dog/bitch being bred from should be mandatory. Plus they need to start making judges mark down dogs with breed traits that are too exaggerated, so that breeders move away from p

tabulahrasa- have you shown or done some breeding?

I currently have 3 dogs: 1 good dog, well proportioned, lovely temperament with very low inbreeding. Excellent for breeding. But not a show dog, because inside of nose has a tiny pink spot. Nose: Must be black....
2 is an European import (sourced together with a "professional breeder", co ownership). Again perfectly formed great temperament... but just inside allowed height. So won't make it as a top show dog (has been placed twice). But nevertheless very successful stud dog for his DNA value.
3 great confirmation, perfect to look at... not shown yet, but whatever happens has an above average IC- so not really valuable as breeding stock. But sods law is probably the best "show dog" I own.
A Dog Show, is a beauty competition... beauty is in the eye of the judge. Dog breeding is a combination of breed standard, DNA and individual temperament. One does not go without the other.

Blue yes. Marking down exaggerated traits is a great idea. Back problems and breathing problems. How can they be desirable or attractive traits that need encouraging?
Awful pics on FB recently of sight hounds in the show ring. Look half starved. (In Russia I think though?)

Do you realise all pedigree dogs started off like this? Mixing breeds to get one that looked right or was good at one particular job? It's no different, other than a cross breed (or in this case mongrel) isn't being given a stamp of approval.

I am no keener than anyone else on the very exaggerated pedigrees with health issues, but whether you like designer crosses or not, factually, it really is very different.

Pedigree breeds did indeed all start this way, but were bred by proper 'stockmen', who were far more interested in function than in whether a dog looked chocolate box-cute or its combined names made an amusing tag.

It was also far harsher times - those that didn't suit, or had bad temperaments or health issues were promptly disposed of rather than passed from home to home, getting worse each time.

Isn't there also a smaller pool with more puppies being bred? I have a wolfhound. Years ago they would have been crossed with deerhounds and other breeds to get traits that better enabled them to do their job. But now that doesn't happen.
Smaller pool with more health issues.

BLUEsNewSpringWatch- the Kennel Club charges a yearly fee for the privilege of being registered with them. They also change a fee for every puppy you register...
It's a money making organization.
The place to look at for responsible breeding (for breeders) is the animal health trust. They are fantastic! They are the ones that do the research and devise DNA tests so we can have healthy breeding stock.

When we bred Danes we took it very seriously. No more than one litter every couple of years and no breeding when the Scooby Doo movie came out. Most of our pups were already under sale agreement before they were born. The Average Great Danes lifespan is 6-8 years. Ours were never less than 13. Oldest was a few months shy of 15.

Our last 14 year old boy weighed 16.5st (not an ounce of fat on him) and was a contender for biggest dog.

We bred our babies for showing and more importantly, top health. The longer, healthier (and happier) lives our Danes had the more successful we considered the breeding. That seems to be lost these days with the majority of breeders. By all means cross certain breeds for improving health and getting rid of breed defects such as breathing difficulties but doing it for cute names, crossing cute breeds like Yorkers with Pugs, Poms and Terriers is just moneymaking. Ugh.

@ShesABloodyLoon
You sound like the perfect breeder! Clear focus on welfare and getting the right home. We had to be homechecked. With a dog like a Dane (or a wolfie!) people need to know what they are taking on and just get a dog they fancy the look of.
There are lots of dogs I like but would be completely unsuitable for our family.
People should consider the exercise and grooming and training needs. Not whether it has a "cute" name.