Please help, struggling with difficult dog and dd can't have her friends round

[FoxesAreFabulous]

I have posted before about our training struggles with our mini poodle boy and although he has improved in some ways, I feel that I am reaching the end of my tether - I feel so upset that we are making so much effort and working so hard with him and yet, love him as we do, we are finding life really difficult. I'd love to hear some possible solutions or even that this is just a phase, as I am starting to think that we can't go on like this - then I feel so guilty for even thinking that, as I can't bear the thought of rehoming him.

I'll try to be brief but the issues are:

1. Dd (13), whose dog he really is, is too embarrassed and scared to invite friends round to the house now, in case the dog snaps at them or bites them, and I can't have any friends with young children round. He was friendly with everyone when a puppy but as he has grown up (now 14 months), it has become very clear that he is very nervous around any children smaller than dd. He can walk past children in the park or on the street with no problem and show no interest, but if any child approaches him, either making noises or with a hand out to stroke him, he barks at them and snaps at the air. Obviously, we keep a very close eye on him and have been able to manage this by telling children/parents that he is nervous and doesn't like being stroked. However, at home he is very barky with visitors anyway and it takes a while for him to calm down - we tell people to ignore him but he can snap and growl from a distance. Once he decides to approach someone to say hello, he is then fine with being stroked but even then we have to ask visitors not to overfuss him, as can be unpredictable and snap. I have been on the receiving end of this several times but I read him pretty well now so can mostly avoid it, strangers just see a cute fluffy dog!

Because of this behaviour and his real dislike of anyone smaller than dd, who is tall for her age, dd now refuses to have any of her friends round as she is scared he will bite them, apart from one friend who he has known since he was a puppy and really loves. Dog has already snapped at one of her friends when we met them outside somewhere and this boy brings this up in conversation whenever the subject gets round to pets at school. I feel so sorry for her as all her friends with dogs have really friendly dogs who are good with everyone, despite the fact that we have spent far more time training ours, who is way more obedient but far less friendly. I have suggested having the dog on a lead with me the whole time a friend is here but we live in a flat so nowhere really to have the dog away from visitors - plus, as dd says, her friends will want to see her dog and we won't feel safe letting them stroke him.

1. The barking - he's not a barky dog in the day but every evening, stations himself at the sitting room window and barks every time he sees another dog, a cat or a fox. Trying to move him when he's doing this results in him snapping and although we've moved the sofa away from the window, he now gets onto the window sill. We've tried keeping him settled on a blanket with treats for staying there but this only works for so long, and we don't really want to shut him out all evening in the hallway (which would probably make him complain after an hour or so)

1. When we got him, as a puppy, I was off work over the summer holidays to settle him in and then my mother has been dog-sitting for us during the week during term time. The reason we took on a puppy (after a year of looking for a suitable rescue) was only because my mother was quite insistent that she wanted to dog-sit and that looking after our dog would be lovely for her as she now doesn't have a dog of her own.

Fast forward some months and my mother is now not finding it lovely and complains all the time about not having any free time (she comes at 1pm and stays until dd gets home at 5pm). She has asked me to arrange daycare for at least 2 days a week, knowing that I can't afford this (I could do it for 1 day a week but no more). Dd is furious with her and stressed about the dog, I am just feeling really stressed about it all.

Thanks to anyone who has got through this and has any useful advice - I don't expect to have a perfect dog but this is dd's home too and I feel so sorry for her. This is not how I expected life with our dog to be - I don't mean that I didn't expect to put time and effort into training him and we have done this in spades, also hiring a behaviourist to help us, but I can't afford to have her back again right now. I feel so sad and have started to wonder if we are the right home for him.....

OP I think you really need to try and find the money to bring in a behaviourist again. People can give you hints and tips but this sounds quite complex and as you have said you have tried but you are still struggling. If I was in your shoes I would try and get your behaviourist back to help you.. If you try and rehome him you need to make sure they fully understand that he has shown aggression and it's not just to children as you have said you have also been on the receiving end.

Can you DM help front the costs? Maybe she would be more willing to look after the dog if he wasn't snappy and unpredictable so she could go out with him so it isn't such a bind for her to dog sit. Can you ask her to continue to dog sit for a set period of time and the money you would have spent on one day for day care you put towards getting the behaviourist back in?

Depending on how much work you're prepared to put in, maybe he needs a new home away from children.

Close the curtains or put up blinds at the window - stop him seeing out.

Get him a the red collar / harness that has "aggressive or whatever it is written on it, muzzle him in public (I'm perfectly serious) and don't let people near him at home or outside until you're more comfortable with him. He may be picking up your anxieties as well.

Has he had a full vet check to see if he's in pain at all? Is he intact?

But ultimately, if you can't afford the day care, he needs a new home. Hard as that is.

Thanks BiteyShark, I'm trying to look at this in a calmer way now- I feel like I'm being pathetic but I am worn out dealing with the dog's behaviour! So far, we've tackled everything that's come along and I know that every dog owner has times when they feel like giving up, especially during the puppy/teenage phase. I think you're probably right, we need the behaviourist back again, and that's a really good suggestion about putting the daycare money towards that, thank you . My mother would definitely not help out with the cost! She does go out with him and does long walks every day - she's a walker so enjoys that part of it and I think her 'fed-upness' comes from having promised to do something that she's now regretting, rather than the dog's behaviour, iyswim. He is generally good with her as he is very used to her.

Off to look at budget - I always knew children were a money pit, but so is ddog!

Sorry to hear about all your problems OP. It sounds like a difficult case and I am interested to read what the dog experts suggest. My mum had a similar problem with her Pom he is so small and cute but very nervy and can snap at strangers but he is fine with people he knows so my dd could walk him on the lead from when she was about 9. Of course other kids would want to stroke him and it seemed like we were being funny to say no, when dd was holding him no problems. Small dogs can be difficult sometimes it's just due to their size, but I do wonder if some of them are overbred with breeders concentrating on size and looks over temperament.
Good luck with him and I hope you get some help.

VivienneWestwoodsKnickers, thanks for reading and replying. I have been asking myself exactly that question, whether he would be better off in a home with no visiting children, as he gets so stressed. We do have the curtains closed but he just shoves his nose through the gaps - maybe blinds would be a better bet although we have a very long window so it would need to be 2 blinds and again, I think he'd shove his nose in between them!
I have also been considering a harness or bandana with a 'nervous' or 'I need space' message - it might at least deter the idiots (adults, not children!) who just come up and shove their hand at his face.
I wish we could work out why he's like this - he came from a very responsible breeder, his parents have lovely temperaments, he was well socialised from puppyhood and has only ever been treated well and trained with positive reinforcement. Sees vet regularly for flea treatment and weighing and has no medical issues. He isn't neutered yet - we planned to wait until he was a year old anyway and then our behaviourist advised not neutering until his issues had resolved, in case it aggravated them.

Hi InvisableLobstee, yes I have always thought that smaller dogs are more likely to be snappy than bigger ones, but he's a large miniature so not that small! Neither dd nor I like really tiny dogs so we went as big as we could, considering we live in a flat and are also hoping to do agility with him. I completely agree with you about some breeders but our dog's parents are both lovely and we asked A LOT of questions before we committed to him. I'll see what everyone says then try to come up with a plan, as we don't want to give up on him

The advice is to not neuter if the dog shows any fear agrression with other dogs or people as it can make it worse so your behaviourists advice sounds inline with what I have read and heard.

Does your vet have any behaviourists associated with the practice? Wondering if they did whether they would be cheaper?

Stair gate or dog on lead. Yellow lead or bandana to keep people away.
Prevent him getting near the window. Blinds or furniture move.
Some doggy daycare? She's probably finding it a bit relentless being tied everyday.
How much training do you do? Still go to classes? How much walking? He could be frustrated being stuck in a flat? Brain games?

God that sounds hard is your behaviourist reccomended by your vet i would seek ypur vets advice about behaviour and neutering i would get him a cage so he has a safe space when you have visitors or put him outside also dont let anybody pet him ever so he isn't scared wondering what is going to happen and even though he snaps take him away from the window it is just winding him up.

Keeping him on a lead is a good idea he doesn't want stroked obviously your dds friends can't stroke him.

A muzzle and a crate would solve 2 of your major issues...at least until you work on them.

My dog is muzzled while out and crated for visitors, he's a much bigger breed and I can't risk a snap happening.

Muzzle training usually only takes a few days and while crate training can take a bit longer, it's still weeks rather than the months it can take to make progress on behavioural issues.

And Yep you want the behaviourist back out.

We have ongoing support with our dog he is 6 it sometimes never cured just managed I didn't know about the neutering ours came done and maybe this is part of his problem neutered to young or something.

Wow, went out for a while and came back to loads more replies - thanks so much, everyone, it is greatly appreciated. Wolfiefan we do have a child gate on the kitchen and normally put him in there when a visitor is coming, with one of us standing the other side of it and treating him when he stops barking. I have said to my mother that I will arrange 1 day a week daycare from September - I'm at home a lot more in the holidays - and he gets plenty of walks. We do some training with him at home pretty much every day and being a poodle, he picks stuff up very quickly plus we play with him and get him doing nose work and finding hidden toys. Most of the time, he is extremely affectionate with us so we are at a loss to understand why he can then just 'turn' and snap even at us.
MrsJayy we do have him on lead when visitors first come unless they're people he knows well; he still barks but runs up to them to sniff and say hello, so excited rather than nervous.
tabulahrasa I hate the idea of muzzling him but I think it's something we have to consider, as you say until we can sort this out. What breed is yours? And have you had him since he was a pup? We did try crate training when we first got our dog and persevered for a long time but he absolutely hated it and we found that it worked better for him to puppy-proof the sitting room and let him have the run of there and the kitchen when we went out. He has his 'den' under the coffee table and no-one is allowed to disturb him there or anywhere else if he's asleep. I think I'll ask the behaviourist about revisiting crate training and see if she has any useful tips to see if we can make it work.

Would he tolerate a playpen better? You can't just put them in a crate. You have to train them. Have a look at FB group dog training advice and support. They have great advice re crates. Also offer free advice from trained behaviourists.

I used to have a dog like this and it was a nightmare op so I can sympathise.

I would also agree with getting more professional help if you can.

One thing I learned was you can't change genetics. Sometimes despite your best efforts and all of that "it's how you raise them" crap some dogs are just born nervous. Dogs are born with traits and some of them sadly are not all good ones and sometimes it's a case of accepting what you have can't be changed into what you want.

I also learned that it's okay for the dog to be removed from the situation, your not giving up but think of it as removing the stress from the dogs life.
If the dog is frightened of children, don't take it in areas where there's children around as all your doing is creating more stress for him. The more he associates children with stress the more he will dislike them and you have a vicious circle.
If he were mine I would crate him away from strangers in a quiet area and teach him to settle. Make it a fab place he loves and put him away. He doesn't not need to meet strangers and why should he if it's causing lots of problems, it's also risky as if he does bite someone the outcome is never good.
The dog will be happier and less stressed and both you and your daughter can enjoy friends round...it took me years to take a step back and thing hang on what's the point? The dog was happy out the way and everyone was more relaxed so why force the issue?

I do hope you manage to find some soloution soon

Someone was telling me today about a collar that vibrates which might be worth trying for the barking, there is this one on amazon that gets good reviews. Also I have a labradoodle and definitely remember a phase like this, recently there has been something in the news about a new finding that dogs go through a teenage phase so it may be you have more than one teenager in the house! My dog calmed down but is still active and fun at 10.

Mine is a Rottweiler - so, um, yeah, fairly important he doesn't get to bite anyone, lol.

Yes I've had him from 8 weeks, but he's got a really complicated medical history and his behavioural issues are the fallout from that, so nothing super helpful.

The muzzle is great, honestly, it's main purpose is to make other people avoid him...obviously in a situation where everything has failed it will stop him biting, but mostly it's a really obvious warning to everyone else to keep away.

He didn't wear it out until he was happily wearing it inside and now it's just part of his walking gear, I pick it up he gets excited because it means a walk.

The crate, yeah if your dog has had an unhappy experience that'll be trickier.

Though if he goes under the coffee table already could you put one under there maybe?

If he already has his den under the table I think it would be possible to extend that to using the crate as his den.
I know it's sad for your dd as he's her little doggie and she probably hoped he would play with her friends but she will have to be mature about it (as she sounds to be) and do what's best for him if that means keeping him away from visitors.

I have a mini poodle, (I also have an elderly big dog) we've always had big dogs in the past this is our first small one. Im not dog expert but the is my experience, mini poodles sensitive and are very devoted to their families, mine has been very well socialised with dogs and people but remains very slightly aloof when ever he meets them, unlike my previous big dogs who love everyone. The old (big) boy will talk to anyone and go off with anyone quite cheerfully without even looking back, move in with them as long as they were nice to him, fed him and let him sit in a comfortable chair. Last year we went away a friend house sat, the poodle definitely started to get increasingly worried after about 10 days.
My poodle welcomes visitors to my house with enthsiasm, wags his tail, jumps up etc but I suspect if someone tried to get grab hold of him and take him away from me or if he thought the was going to happen I couldn't 100% guarantee he wouldn't growl and even snap especially if he couldn't escape or get to me. I also think if we were out for a walk and someone grabbed at him and again he thought he would be taken away from me he might growl and even snap. We were walking one day, he was off his lead and a very large man wearing hat and massive rain coat and who sort of lumbered tried for no obvious reason to pick him up, he reached out a huge hand and tried to grab his collar, he panicked and ran and for some unknown reason got totally disorientated and couldn't see I was about 60 m away and he ran home. My neighbour (who he knows) saw him and tried to catch him and he panicked even more and tried to run over the road she then backed off and he just sat on our doorstep shaking. The old dog in contrast would never have done anything like this, anyone could grab at him and pick him up assuming you're strong enough. I must add he's never ever growled or snapped at anyone or anything (he's 6) we meet loads of people including children all the time lots of people talk to him yes he's friendly and he's happy for them to touch him but he remain very very slightly wary probably not noticeable to most as he's waging his tail jumping up etc but he's got 1/2 an eye on me. My children were teenagers when we got him, he has no experience of small children, we live in an area with lots of tourists, and a few years ago I was walking him and there was picnic with lots of toddlers (20+) and they ran at him making lots of noise and he was definitely worried and started to hide behind my legs, again if they'd grabbed at him I wouldn't like to 100% guarantee he wouldn't growl and snap, the old dog just wagged his tail and looked delighted to see them he has also not really been socialised with toddlers.
Mine never barks so I can't help you with that one.
Mini poodles are delightful, cheerful jolly little dogs but they are also highly intelligent and sensitive to their surroundings and I think they are much more easily worried than other breeds. I hate to ask but did you get your mini from a really reputable breeder? Have you spoken to her/him?

Sorry to hear to dog is having issues. You Definately need expert help. I've taken my pup with separation anxiety to a specialist vet as well as getting one on one training. As others have suggested there's likely a genetic component involved and it might be worth trying medication as well as training for the best results. It's not cheap but at least you'll know you've tried everything.

If you do have to rehome try not to beat yourself up. I used to be all about keeping your pet no matter what but now I have a dog with behaviour issues I realise it's not that black and white. Some dogs just will never suit certain homes.

Did you get your dog from a breeder? If so, that would be the first choice for rehoming. Otherwise the breed specific rescues are usually excellent. If you do it properly it can work out. Good luck

I'm not able to offer advice but check your insurance policy, we were able to have a series of sessions with a behaviourist when out Collie X had some issues at about the same age as your dog. The insurance covered all the costs except for £50 excess. I wish you well

Apologies if this has already been flagged up (I haven't read the earlier posts) but do you know that he gets enough exercise, like not just enough to do his business but enough to really tire him out? Our dogs go with a dogwalker for two hours off-lead and after they come home and eat dinner they will sleep for four or five hours. I'm sure it's the only thing that keeps them out of trouble.

We used to have a dog with separation anxiety and the only way I got any time to leave the house was to send him with a walker, but it had the added affect of tiring him, which made him less nervous. It also makes them more amenable to training as they are less distractable and bolshy when they have expended their excess energy.

We were told by my poodles breeder that they don't have a high exercise requirement, this was one of the attractions for me. We were moving from a farm situation to a house and garden and therefore lacked the space and time to own dog that wants to be outside running around 4-5 hours a day. My old big dog (13yrs) even now if I pick up the leads will jump around like a loon, the poodle is definitely not walking obsessed some days he'll only get 1/2 an hour and access to my garden, it doesn't bother him. The other day it was chucking it down with rain and the old dog doesn't like it so I waited till the afternoon to walk them. By 2pm the old dog was getting restless whereas the poodle was curled up asleep on my window seat and had been there all day, every so often he looks up, sees me, "yup mum it still here, all is alright with the world", back to sleep. So I suspect in the case of poodles restlessness and anxiety is more related to their situation than the amount of exercise they need.
This thread has got me thinking, I love the poodle to bits but I very much doubt Id get another one, my family definitely aren't mad on him. Poodles would be ideal if you're on your own and want a highly trainable, totally devoted pet, with a relatively low exercise requirements, very low or non existence prey drive, and who like food oh and non shedding. I can see why they are associated with old ladies. But we are a busy family, with lots of different people coming and going and staying, working odd hours etc, and lots of people walking the dogs, the poodle who has excellent recall for me wont come back for strangers/acquaintances, even with a friend he sees almost daily he's a bit iffy, the old dog would come back for anyone. They are just a bit more complicated than a very straight forward dog like GSP's, which we used to own who simply eat sleep exercise do as there told and love EVERYONE regardless of who or what they are and accept everyone and everything as just another part of their ever growing circle of family. and friends. Don't get me wrong he is a happy friendly very well socialised little dog, he's not really an anxious type, partly because I put loads of effort into it in the early months. But I can see how he could easily have been different. A friend has a poodle cross thing thats very similar to the dog your have OP.

It's not just a matter of keeping everyone away from him or telling him off for being aggressive. Ignoring him (which you are doing) and praising the absolute tiniest bits of friendly behaviour are the way forward. Is he biting or doing that warning snap thing? Do the kids know to wait for him to approach them? To touch his body not his head?

Do you have any pictures of him? No reason, I just love dogs