Anyone with a Chihauhua??

[MrsXx4]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could give us some advice, especially if any of you have a Chihuahua.

We would really love to buy a Chihuahua puppy and have thought long and hard about it however we would like to know once and for all if it would be cruel of us to get one. We think we already know the answer although we are told differently by others…

We work long hours, we leave the house at 7am and get home at 6.30pm Mon-Fri. Is this really too long to leave a dog on its own? We work far away so there is no chance for popping home at lunch times etc.

People have told us that the puppy will learn that its routine and that they wont have any concept of how long they are left for if it is done from a young age. We wouldn’t have a cage for it and it would have free roaming of the house. We have a large, secure garden although I would be nervous to think of the dog getting stolen or something if someone were to break over our fence?!

So, is it cruel to get a puppy if we aren’t home much during the day? We don’t want to get a puppy if it will be lonely.

So an actual vet that posted above is just being dramatic?

If you know you'll definitely have much reduced hours around a year down the line you could start looking for a good reputable breeder now, making it clear you know you can't whilst you work long hours, but will be reducing your hours next year and wanted to start finding the right breeder, so they can tell you when they have pups due, after your hours are reduced.

This is really good advice. It can take long time to find a decent breeder and even when you do their planned litter may not be imminent.

I would always recommend the relevant breed club as a good starting point, they should be able to put you in touch with members who are planning litters. The British Chihuahua Club has a pretty stringent code of ethics which its members must abide by, including not allowing puppies to go to their new homes before twelve weeks of age. Although eight weeks is the norm for the vast majority of breeds Chihuahua puppies really shouldn't be leaving their mum and litter mates before twelve weeks. A lot of either naive or unscrupulous breeders will just let them go at eight weeks because they either don't realise they shouldn't or because they're trying to maximise profits by getting rid of them as soon as possible. Unfortunately due to their popularity there are a lot of iffy breeders of them about so it's well worth really taking your time and doing as much research as possible into prospective breeders.

Going along to shows is well worth it if you can, it gives you the opportunity to chat to owners and breeders as well as meet lots of examples of the breed. Discover Dogs is great too, plus there's a Discover Dogs area every year at Crufts where you can meet the breed and talk to breed representatives.

Champdogs have a good guide to buying a puppy as well as a list of questions to ask a breeder, both of which I'd recommend reading.

Yes IMHO Vet was clearly being dramatic in circumstances where the OP hasn't even got a dog yet and in circumstances where the OP was being perfectly responsible by asking very sensible questions before taking on the responsibility of a dog.

Further unless Vet is legally qualified (and my apologies if she/he is) I am not really interested in Vet's interpretation of "duty of care" or how that may or may not apply to the Animal Welfare Act.

I have tried to refrain from commenting in this section because of the sheer nastiness of some posters which is often tied in to an inability to provide non-judgmental advice.

I am also sorry that the OP feels no longer wants to come back here for advice. I know how she feels and I suspect there many more posters who simply don't come here for advice for fear of being judged when all they are really trying to do is give an animal a good, stable and happy life. Clearly if the welfare of the dog wasn't at the forefront of the OP's mind she wouldn't be asking welfare based questions in the first place.

Tis a shame.

The thing is you can be at home 24/7 and not pay any attention to a dog, not train it, not walk it or provide vet care when needed. Others can also work full time and provide a dog with a stable and happy home taking care of its needs. OP was asking because what they were being told in RL didn't quite seem right with them so I see nothing wrong with them asking and it would be a shame if people felt they could not come on here and ask any question they wanted.

Tammy I'm fairly sure vet is known on here as an actual qualified vet.

Also whilst some posters are too harsh in their wording what they are saying is based on fact. A number of things you've said aren't.

Do you also disagree with RSPCA, PDSA, Dogs Trust and thousands of other dog rehoming charities and dog welfare organisations? Since you appear to think their advice on no more than 4hrs alone is wrong (and mumsnet being ridiculous) and the dog will do as the human demands because human is pack leader? (Which coincidentally goes very against all modern scientific research - dogs do not have alphas and omegas or human pack leaders - pack/dominance theory has been fully debunked).

Blue you just made my point. You have read into my posts stuff I simply did not say.

I just give up.

Also I would never be so arrogant as to think I am an expert on all things dog and or breeds. Indeed I am far from perfect.

A lot of us commenting are qualified with dogs in some way shape or form. Tammy if you believe you need to be a pack leader, you need to do some research.

Tammy perhaps you should go back and read your own posts. There are too many examples to sit here copying and pasting from your post to show that you have done/said all I have pointed out.

Oh and Tammy you still aren't answering the questions asked of you.

Blue and Lil why so nasty and aggressive?

You are both right that I'm not a dog expert but I never held myself out as being one. If you both feel better qualified to advise then please do so kindly.

Why carry on being nasty, patronising and unwelcoming. What you do as a result is alienate people and dissuade them from coming on here to ask for advice. This isn't AIBU. It should be a kind and open forum.

I simply don't get the need for such hostility.

I hope however that in the future you find it in yourselves to try to show some kindness to strangers instead of nastiness. To not make wild assumptions, read into posts things that aren't there. Believe it or not you might find that people react better to kindness and politeness and wouldn't need to leave this forum because it has been made so unpleasant for them.

I don't think the answers were overly dramatic given the OP's actual hours...

Someone leaving the house at 7, is more than likely busy between 6 and 7 getting ready for work, busy when they get back from 6.30 to about 8 cooking, eating, washing dishes and in bed for what? 10, 11 o'clock?

There really isn't any spare time there for a dog, nevermind a puppy.

I have two dogs and work full time but... am only out the house 8 hours and the dogs have visits from my parents or the dog walker at least 3 days a week and I work from home or come home from work at lunchtime the other days. Neither like being on their own I.e without the other dog, t only works as they are comfortable as a pair. In addition they are rarely left alone of an evening or weekend.

I think working full time and dogs can work so long as you've got other support for them when you're not there but I'm sorry I think your hours are too long to get by with just a dog walker even with a dog walker and I think the length of time would be too distressing for a puppy on its own. The only thing I think you could do to support the dog properly would be to put it into a good dog day care every day.

Blue you just made my point. You have read into my posts stuff I simply did not say.

Oh the irony!

And yet I'm overly dramatic and not professional

Tammy you've done nothing but demonstrate your own lack of knowledge of dog ethology (pack theory? ) and criticise perfectly valid points of view. If you're actually interested in animal welfare you might want to read the PDSA's PAW report which shows that millions of UK pets are suffering due to irresponsible pet ownership.
www.pdsa.org.uk/get-involved/our-current-campaigns/pdsa-animal-wellbeing-report

Your personal viewpoint might be that it's fine to have a dog in the circumstances OP describes. But the weight of scientific and animal welfare evidence is against you. As pet owners it is our responsibility to educate ourselves about what our pets really need -this free course may be useful if you or the OP are interested in learning more about what your pet actually needs, rather than just what you think it needs
www.coursera.org/learn/cats-and-dogs

Vet when did I say you were unprofessional? I don't recall calling you unprofessional or even using that word - if I did I can only apologise.

You use "might" and "evidence against you" in the same sentence. Now that is ironic. Frankly you don't know what my views are but then I don't come on here to preach to others when I don't even show them the courtesy of listening to what they are saying.

I don't like that this part of mumsnet has at times become a nasty unwelcoming place. Most people come on here for genuine help - not to be blasted, put down and demoralised. You must be so proud!

I'm sure I could have learnt a lot from you about animal welfare, but why would I bother to engage with someone so unpleasant? That is the real shame here.

You have simply endorsed my view of why I originally advised the OP to avoid this forum and go instead to specialist breed forums where the people are kinder and have a genuine interest in helping and providing (professional and non-professional) advice with courtesy.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree that our take on helping people is simply different. I can't see the point in protracting this thread for that reason.

Tammy - it's you that keeps being nasty and argumentative.

Plus if you had actually bothered to read my posts to OP you would see I firstly politely pointed OP in the direction of various welfare charities which say more than four hours is too long and now they are starting to make it clear that someone popping in once a day or a dog walker isn't enough for long hours alone. That gave OP places to look at that give respected advice with regards to the welfare of dogs.

Then once OP said about her hours reducing from next year, I gave advice about starting looking for a decent breeder now and good starting points for where to find one - as it can be hard to find a good breeder and take along time. This would mean once she found a good breeder (or breeders) she is happy with, they could let her know when they have litters due after her working hours decreased.

There is nothing nasty or patronising in any of that advice to OP and I don't see why that would put someone off looking at professional advice - in fact it pointed them towards places they could look at for official information.

As I said I've found talking to professionals and discussing concerns on specialist forums a lot more help

You are talking to a professional

You use "might" and "evidence against you" in the same sentence. Now that is ironic.

Actually I used two sentences - and I used 'might' because I don't presume to actually know what your opinion is. If that is your opinion then it stands that the weight of evidence is against you.

Most people come on here for genuine help - not to be blasted, put down and demoralised. You must be so proud!

Please do highlight where I have blasted or put down anyone?

I'm sure I could have learnt a lot from you about animal welfare, but why would I bother to engage with someone so unpleasant? That is the real shame here.

I agree that's a real shame - please do highlight where I've been unpleasant or feel free to report my posts if you feel they're against talk guidelines. However if what you mean by unpleasant is 'not the same as your opinions', you might want to explore why you find others challenging your opinions so difficult and why you'd want to hold onto a diffference in opinion as a 'reason' not to try and learn about how you could do better for your dog.

Specialist breeders and their forums have their place but are also responsible for propagating multiple significant welfare problems in their breeds e.g brachycephaly and other extreme conformations - they certainly aren't necessarily experts in responsible pet ownership or how to provide best for your dogs needs.
However they are more likely to propogate 'traditional' viewpoints of dog ethology which have been debunked through scientific evidence, and evidence shows that breeders often perceive abnormal health and welfare problems as 'normal'. So I guess where you look for information depends on whether you want robust evidence that focuses on how owners can better provide for their pet's welfare, or traditional viewpoints that perpetuate health and welfare problems.

"Specialist breeders and their forums have their place but are also responsible for propagating multiple significant welfare problems in their breeds e.g brachycephaly and other extreme conformations - they certainly aren't necessarily experts in responsible pet ownership or how to provide best for your dogs needs."

Specialist breed forums for my dog's breed are horrendous, full of people using ecollars as routine training tools.

Definitely not a chihuahua. They tend to be one person focussed. Our chi is very much mine (or I'm hers) and she comes with me almost everywhere.

I'm sure there are other breeds that are more suited to being alone all day, but I wouldn't do it to a chihuahua.

Specialist breed forums for my dog's breed are horrendous, full of people using ecollars as routine training tools

Electric shock collars?!? That's frightening. Poor dogs. That's another very good reason to look for information on places like dogs trust and RSPCA, even when you want/ have a puppy from a breeder not a rescue. They have loads of training and welfare information and advice. Dogs Trust are even running puppy and adult dog training courses now, to try and give people the right information on how to train before the dogs end up with labels like "troubled", "aggressive", etc and thus dumped or given to a rescue centre.

I second Dog's Trust

Other reputable resources can be found here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/2956670-Useful-resources-for-common-questions

"Electric shock collarsshock?!? That's frightening. Poor dogs."

I know, personally I don't agree with them full stop, I have however met someone who used one with the help of a trainer to resolve a behavioural issue, so I'll grudgingly give them a bit of the benefit of the doubt under certain circumstances...

But, it's all puppy is x weeks old, I've got his ecollar ready for when he's old enough to train him.

No behavioural issues EVER need the use of a shock collar, ever.

I don't think so either Lil, but more what I mean is, I'm kind of willing to agree to disagree with someone who has used one for a limited time under "professional" advice...

And that that is hugely different to discussing using it like, well like it was a standard bit of equipment.

Prong collars also come up a lot on breed specific forums

Thankfully alpha rolling isn't mentioned as much as it used to be.

I'm assuming none of those things come up on chihuahua forums due to their size, but I wouldn't rely on there being any sort of training or welfare expertise just because they're breed specific.

I work 8-6 , however teen DD is home more and I have a dog walker daily who she's with for at least 2 hours. That breed (in my personal experience) are really tricky to toilet train and are prone to seperation anxiety. My dog doesn't seem bothered to be left for 3-4 hours she's often so exhausted from the dog walker she sleeps the rest of the day.