Tell me what dog to get!

[CabbageLooking]

Hello - I am an aspiring dog-owner. We are about to move into a dog friendly house (good sized garden, floorboards rather than carpets, lots of great walks nearby) and I am at home all day and myself DH and DS really want to add a dog to the family. Before you ask: yes, we can afford it; yes, we are willing and able to give it the time and attention it needs and no, we haven't had a dog before.

It's not going to happen immediately, we need to work out what we want, research it and get the house ready before we do but, on the basis of the following, what would you recommend?

1. We are new to dog ownership.
2. We want something soft and gentle rather than barky and/or aggressive (I realise that some of this may come from nuture rather than nature).
3. We want something from puppy rather than kennel (we're not experienced - we need to know where it comes from, we wouldn't know what to do with a dog that had a difficult background).
4. It may need to be left for around an hour each day (for a walking school-run, I might be able to take it with me but I can't be sure).
5. Dh and DS both have a tendency towards allergies - neither have been noticeably allergic to dogs but ones which are heavy shedders might not be ideal.
6. I am fond of: golden retrievers, old english sheepdogs, springer spaniels and west-highland terriers. This is not an exclusive list. I don't like muscle dogs (I know, I know, they're misunderstood. I still don't want want one).

Go on wise MNers - tell me what you recommend.

Have a look at the website the dog food directory. They rate food for different things. Different foods suit different dogs and some owners are rampant about promoting their chosen way of feeding.
Raw is very popular. Some worry about health issues around raw food. You can buy it ready prepped and frozen. Need a freezer!
Dried. Convenient. Many foods you can buy at a suoermarket are low quality.
Wet foods. Same as dry!

We have a Tibetan Terrier and their fur is meant to be better for people with allergies.

We researched the breed and bought from a breeder who has been doing so for many years, so they are there to answer questions and provide reassurance.

Our Tibetan is a little character and delightful company, loves playing and yet is very chilled and relaxed.

Tibetans do need firm boundaries so ours will be going to training classes. Don't let that put off though as they learn super quickly and are very rewarding pets.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/property/house-and-home/pets/features/pet-of-the-week-the-tibetan-terrier-2073896.html%3Famp

Tibbies also suffer from separation anxiety and are very strong willed. They won't do anything because you want them to, you have to give them a reason. They are delightful little clowny dogs, highly intelligent and quick to train, they are not obedient by any stretch of the inimagination - they are very far from the Ops preferred easy dog. They also take a shitload of grooming even if you have their hair cut off. They are very vocal as well so make good guard dogs

My mum has 3 and while they are brilliant, I would not say they are a good first dog for inexperienced owners.

ColossalKalamari- you really don't like Tibetans do you?
I have 3, and yes they can be a handful as youngsters. So training classes for the first 12-18 months is advisable. Especially if you are a first time dog owner. But my adults are lovely, well behaved calm dogs. I have never encountered problems with training- I find them easy and very responsive. (We do competitive agility & some obedience). The one that is not cut out for doggy sports is registered with pets as therapy- a job he takes very seriously!
But they are also one of the most loyal, affectionate dogs I know.
It is true, they want to be part of all family activities, so leaving them for endless hours is wrong- like with all other dogs.

OP try this link to find out what type of breed is suited to your needs.
www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/findabreed/Default.aspx

please, no doodles Is just doodleist. We have a labradoodle and she is the best dog ever. I've had dogs all my life, of all sorts. We've had a rescue, which was ok but extremely hard work. We've had a terrier, who definitely had a mind of his own, we've had spaniels which yapped for England and we've had a golden retriever.

Our doodle sheds far less than any other dog we've had. She only barks when someone is at the door. She's obedient, gentle and very loving. She was eye and hip checked and is extremely healthy.

My first dog was a Labrador cross, she was amazing and such a nice dog. We knew nothing about dogs, just went and got her from a person who had a litter at home. Luckily it all worked out.
She was a lovely dog everyone loved her. With labs they are quite good family dogs but quite chewy and can nip a bit when puppies and quite strong and boisterous. They need quite a lot of exercise and training. I often see people with a fat Labrador dragging them along so it just shows they are not for everyone.
My new dog we rehomed from a local rescue centre. She is a small lurcher. We got her at about 7 month old. She is another very nice dog. She was very mouthy when we got her and would play bite a lot but quite hard. We had to work on that a lot. The difference with her over my old lab is she needs shorter walks but she needs to run. She likes to zoom around at top speed. She does get a bit naughty if she doesn't get her runs and will chew things up. But if she has had her run she will sleep a lot and is quite well behaved. She is quite clever which is the collie side I think and has learned a few tricks even though we hardly did any training on those. So we have had a few problems but over all she is a lovely fun dog and very pretty! I would definitely get another lurcher.
Both these dogs shed a lot! I have had to buy a new Hoover for current dog as the amount of fur broke my old one.

Doodlist!

If you read my post again I not saying they're not nice dogs. I am saying the "fashion" for these crosses - and i include non poodle crosses like morkies and jugs or whatever ridiculous name- is driving puppy farms and irresponsible breeders. Very few of these dogs have had hip scores and other genetic tests, the pug thing has led to a massive rise in dogs with breathing issues, again.

And again, while the odd dog may inherit the non shedding coat, simple genetics tell you that the majority won't. I was asked to rehome a chihuahua x poodle by someone who had got it home to discover that a) it shed, and b) their child was still allergic. They paid over £1000 for it too.

I just don't get the logic of people who want a hypoallergenic, non shedding dog, and instead of getting one with those qualities, aka a poodle, they think if they cross it with a shedding, allergenic dog, it'll somehow result in an improved version? What is so wrong with a poodle that you need to weaken the traits that make the dog desirable?

A whippet would suit you well I think...

Whenever this topic crops up at work, and I start to ask the prospective owner about how much exercise, grooming, bathing, available space in the car/house, type of holidays they have etc, 90% of the time, my answer is a whippet.

They are the perfect dog for the lazy dog owner imo. No grooming, you can get mud off them with a damp flannel, need very little exercise (2 x 20 minute sprints a day is plenty), few health issues, easy-going temperament, not very barky and not difficult to train.

Having had lakeland terriers for nearly 20 years, we are seriously considering a whippet for our next dog. I think I'm a bit old for raising another lakie - they are hard work (but very rewarding).

Golden retrievers: lovely, lovely dogs but: big, need a lot of grooming, shed hair like no tomorrow, can be prone to slobbering. Can have hip dysplasia, so check out the average hip score and don't get a puppy unless both parents are hip scored and below average.

Old English sheepdogs: need loads of exercise and stimulation, very big and strong, need firm handling and training and a nightmare for grooming. Would you be able to lift a dog that big in and out of the bath easily when it gets covered in mud, which will be most days in winter?

Springer spaniels: adorable but need loads of exercise. They tend to be manic until they're about 3. Remember that this is a breed which is designed to spend all day flushing game and retrieving. They can run for hours on end. Not an ideal town dog, imo. Easy to train provided they get enough exercise. If you plan to take up shooting, there's nothing better imo.

West highland terriers: I'm a huge terrier fan and love Westies. But: they can be nippy, are prone to skin problems, are (like all terriers) highly intelligent but very independent and wilful. They also need a fair bit of grooming because they don't shed and should, ideally, be hand stripped (the coat gets soft if clipped and loses its weather resistance).

I'm not convinced that any terrier breed is an ideal first-time dog, because they are so independent and strong willed that training them is a challenge.This is not a criticism, I am addicted to terriers and it is the voice of experience! However, if you like westies you may like to consider the Cairn terrier, which is similar in appearance but seem to have a steadier temperament and be a little more biddable. Border terriers also seem to be less independently-minded than many terrier breeds.

The upside of terriers is that they are clever, funny, endlessly entertaining, small (there's a lot to be said for a dog you can tuck under your arm if it's misbehaving) and utterly lovable.

Re the allergies, it is often the dander rather than the fur itself that is the allergen. I am more allergic to the non-shedding lakelands than I ever was to my labrador cross, who coated the house in thick black fluff twice a year.

Someone should produce a book on the downside of all the breeds. Most breed books are written by lovers of the breed, so play down the negatives.

ColossalKalamari- you really don't like Tibetans do you?

Fuck knows how you've managed to get that from my post - I love them and they're lovely little dogs, I just don't think they're suitable for an inexperienced owner looking for an easy first dog.

Really it's each to their own. My experience of doodles is very good indeed. On the park where we walk ours there are five labradoodles, one goldendoodle and too many cockerpoos to count.

My personal choice would be labradoodle, but then I'm biased as mine is such a darlingD. The other labradoodle owners concur with me that they shed less than other breeds they have owned. We previously had a golden retriever who shed for England and back. He was a gorgeous dog in every respect but the hair gets everywhere.

We send our labradoodle to the dog groomers twice a year and she has a short back and sides. This also helps to reduce the shedding.

As you will know Really all dogs are designer dogs, as even the most unlikely looking pooch is descended from wolves. Over the years humans have bred dogs for the characteristics seen as desirable. The craze for doodles is no different.

Provided dogs are bred responsibly, there isn't a problem and that goes for any dog.

*Over the years humans have bred dogs for the characteristics seen as desirable. The craze for doodles is no different.

Provided dogs are bred responsibly, there isn't a problem and that goes for any dog.*

Again, you miss my point. I have no issue with crosses themselves, and they are mostly fab little dogs.

But i'm willing to bet out of those "too many to count" cockerpoos, very few come from breeders who have bred them responsibly. There are no checks and balances when breeding crosses, if you look into places, they are puppy farms, or dave down the road who thinks £1k a puppy, six puppies a litter, 2 litters a year is a nice little business. Especially if you don't bother with pesky vets fees.

Yes crosses have been bred, but again my point is you're taking the supposedly desirable traits and breeding them out, not in, and weirdly hoping the offspring will have the poodle traits, not the other parent.

I have a male yorkie puppy. Already i have been approached twice in one week by dog owners who think that mating him with their female non pedigree pet will produce lovely puppies they can make money from. Likely they will, but is it responsible? He is actually too small and not suitable for breeding, something his breeder discussed with me at length, to make sure I would neuter him.

Responsible dog breeding actually makes very little money.

Really I'm not agreeing with you, rather than missing your points.

Your I'm willing to bet isn't evidence to back up what you're saying.

Yes crosses have been bred, but again my point is you're taking the supposedly desirable traits and breeding them out, not in, and weirdly hoping the offspring will have the poodle traits, not the other parent. This isn't true either, as the lovely, patient, laid back nature of labradors and golden retrievers are very much desired. My gorgeous labradoodle has turned out to be very much labrador, in so many ways and I'm happy about that.

The crosses which involve the miniature poodles also tend to be successful in helping to minimise the problems the heavier labs and goldies can suffer from.

Sadly just this week we met a German Shepherd on the park who was only two yet had serious Hip Dysplasia. The owner hadn't done his homework! Poor dog, it made me feel really sad. This is anecdotal evidence, which suggests you really must be very careful when selecting any puppy.

Anyone getting any type of puppy should scrupulously check out the breeders. Poodles can carry a problem with their eyesight and so should be scored for this. The bigger breeds like labs, goldies GSD, should also be hip scored. Any crosses should be scored if appropriate.

Through inbreeding many pedigree dogs can suffer problems such as: Difficulty breathing
Difficulty giving birth
Difficulty walking
Serious eye problems
Serious skin problems

This is why checking out your breeder is so very important, whether you choose a pedigree puppy or a crossbreed.

Through inbreeding many pedigree dogs can suffer problems such as: Difficulty breathing
Difficulty giving birth
Difficulty walking
Serious eye problems
Serious skin problems

These exact problems are also present in cross breeds. Only, people believe they are healthier and forget that many conditions are present in both breeds. Hip dysplasia is very common in many breeds, including the Labrador. Buying a cross with something rather won't guarantee a healthy puppy. The result will cost you your heart and dig deep into your wallet.

And, as an added bonus, you can buy a pedigree puppy from fully health tested parents for less than your designer mongrel.

This is taken from a doodle Breeder:

Our Miniature Poodle stud is hereditary DNA CLEAR for prcd-PRA which means that it is impossible for him to pass on the gene that causes this common form of blindness in Poodles. As for hip dysplasia, by breeding down in size the risk of a dog contracting hip dysplasia is greatly reduced as it is largely a problem in large, heavy breeds of dogs. However, in addition we have selected our girls paying careful attention to ensuring that the hip scores in their backgrounds are consistantly low and definitely well below breed average, to help reduce any risk of passing on genes that may increase the risk of hip dysplasia.

Erm... It's fine, I don't want a doodle. Or a Tibetan thingy.

I am quite drawn towards a lurcher except that (a) I do like the idea of something a little more... cuddly and (b) because I'm an inexperienced owner I think I might want something that is reasonably happy on-lead.

In my mind's eye I see us with something a bit scruffy and scraggly but I have no idea what that might be and it's probably a really bad idea. I think I'm paranoid about being a Terrible Dog Owner so I'm desperately trying to find the correct dog that I won't fuck up. But, honestly, we are good people who will work really hard on keeping him/her safe, happy and healthy - maybe I'm overthinking this?

You can't overthink getting a dog! The problem is those people who don't think at all. Try a breed selector quiz. If you're in no rush how about visiting discover dogs? Go to some dog shows? See breeds and talk to owners?

One thing that's often missing when it comes to the various doodles/poos is the vWD1 DNA test. It's not a simple recessive condition like many and, although it's not very common, carriers can be symptomatic to a degree. The vWD1 test is still necesssry even when cross breeding.

There's also a DNA test for Macrothrombocytopenia which has been identified in both labs and all three sizes of poodle.

Ideally though a breeder should be making use of all available health schemes and DNA tests so they know if they're potentially producing puppies who are carriers for any of the conditions which can affect either breed. Obviously these become vital if they're doing any crossing back to either parent breed.

Sadly many breeders (whatever breed/type/cross they're producing) don't utilise all the tools available to them to help safeguard the future and health of breeds and dogs as a whole.

Anyone getting any type of puppy should scrupulously check out the breeders.

You're absolutely right with this but a lot of people still hold the misconception that crosses/mongrels are guaranteed to be healthier than pedigrees which obviously just isn't the case.

Cross breeding is an extremely useful tool when it comes to eradicating health issues (the LUA Dalmatians are an excellent example of this) or improving genetic diversity (the KC can't approve sensible outcrossing programmes soon enough for me) but it's not a magic bullet and alone it's no guarantee of health.

Wolfiefan Yes, I mean obviously I'm researching, etc. But perhaps I need to stop looking for the perfect breed and start looking for the perfect DOG (and then work out the pros and cons).

OP, if you opt for a pedigree, the one thing I would advise is to check out the coefficient of inbreeding (COI) of the litter. It's easily done: you get the pedigree names of the parents and plug the info into the Kennel Club website. COI is a measure of how inbred the puppies are. Inbred dogs have (on average) shorter lifespans, are less fertile, and are more prone to genetic disease.

Ideally, you want a COI below 5%, and/or below the breed average (which the KC will helpfully tell you). The COI data is only as good as the number of generations used to produce it - again, you can crawl all over the pedigrees on the KC site.

There are no guarantees with dogs, and they are the hell of a tie, but I can't imagine not having one.

I spent ages trawling rescues. With younger kids and cats and not having a dog already and no previous dog ownership I got a bit stuck. Many dogs were staffs or staff mixes. Can be really lovely but not for me! I also couldn't cope with high energy, too much grooming or terrier attitude! (I am terrierist!)
I spent about two years trying to talk myself out of what I really wanted. But couldn't.
You do get scruffy lurchers BTW. My sighthound is happy to mooch on the lead and we use safe spaces for gallops.

the KC can't approve sensible outcrossing programmes soon enough for me
Agreed. I look at the 'health' stats for some breeds and boggle.

If you think you'd be ok with some prey drive (which really just means being sensible about where you let them off lead), a wicked sense of mischief humour and zero respect for the personal space of others I'd suggest having a look at whippets

In the words of the breed club:

"Whippets are gentle and lovable pets to live with. The Whippet is a hound and therefore will chase more or less anything that moves – so an enclosed garden is essential. He likes nothing better than a run over the fields, but will always return when called. He is happy in close association with his human family and will take a full part in the family fun. But he was bred to race, hunt and course, and so he must have his good run every day – and then, being rather sophisticated for a dog, he will be happy to curl up quietly in a corner of your best sofa."

They're very much at the trainable end of the sighthound spectrum. The vast, vast majority of whippets I know (and I know a lot through showing, etc.) all go off lead just fine. If you're worried about letting a dog off lead then there are more and more places popping up which have secure fields that can be rented by the half hour/hour so dogs can have a good run in complete safety.

I'm a bit biased as I've got three but they really are fabulous little dogs. Very flexible when it comes to exercise, they'll settle after a 30 minute blast off lead but equally will go for hours given the opportunity. They are bright and enjoy training/brain games/etc. but at the same time don't need loads in order to be content. They are ridiculously cuddly, it's pretty much impossible to sit down in my house without ending up with at least one whippet sitting on you. They have very easy care coats, are generally very healthy (plus the breed club is fairly proactive in their monitoring of potential health concerns) and are a lot more robust than they look.

The main downsides are the kleptomania (never known a whippet who wasn't a dreadful thief) and the fact they're addictive. I don't know many people who only have one and three is pretty modest by a fair few whippet owner's standards

Get a RESCUE obviously!

Labrador but from a working line as they are immensely trainable. Ours was from a family friend and was toilet trained from the moment we brought him home and is wonderful with our ds. He is 20x easier than our jack russle was.