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The doghouse

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Original poster

Ddog snapped at two children :-(

47 replies

Harumff · 17/06/2017 21:34

I really need some advice/reassurance I'm doing the right thing here...

Adopted a c5 year old collie cross 2 1/2 weeks ago. She was a stray so the centre didn't know her history but she had been with them two months and was very sociable. She is incredibly placid at home and loves nothing more than to go between us for cuddles and tummy rubs and has dealt brilliantly with our two cats.
Despite being a stray she was obviously loved at some point as she came to us very well trained - will sit, lie down, leave food until told she can get it etc.

All great.... about a week ago when we were out walking her, a boy about 3 ran up to her with a massive stick in a 'lion tamer' sort of stance and she growled then tried to snap at him (she was on the lead so no harm done). I didn't think too much of it as I didn't blame her for being scared the way he approach and the parent actually apologised to us.

Then today my sister was having a barbecue and invited us plus dog. For a couple of hours she loves the attention and got lots of strokes and cuddles from the dozen or so people who were there and was very well behaved (I should say everyone there was an adult or child between 11-16). Then a friend turned up with her 6 year old daughter. The dog was lying asleep under a chair and the girl ran straight in very noisily (she has autism and 'squeals' a lot) straight towards her. The dog growled and snapped at her as I grabbed her.

I'm utterly devastated. She has shown no aggression whatsoever towards my two dc (11 and 13) or anyone else, although she does look out of the window and sometimes growl at people walking past. My first instinct is we need to take her back as this was two warnings that I can't ignore.... but now I'm thinking that in each of these cases the dog was understandably scared by the situation and maybe I give her the benefit of the doubt. Small kids aren't really a part of our life (these two are the only two she has seen in 2 1/2 weeks) and we always keep her on a lead outside so it's unlikely that she would have the opportunity to do harm. But can I trust her properly now? I'm considering getting a professional involved before I give up on her but just wanted some opinions/advice from you more experienced dog owners. Thanks

OP posts:

Original poster

Harumff · 17/06/2017 22:56

Thanks everyone. I can see now that today was a mistake, she's just been a settled (or so I thought) that I didn't see it as a problem. Dog ownership is a learning curve but I promise we're trying to do the best for her.

OP posts:

IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday · 17/06/2017 23:00

Good luck with her Harumff. Take it slow and I'm sure it will all work out. You do sound very caring and she is lucky to have a new home when so many don't.

Wolfiefan · 17/06/2017 23:00

It soooooo is a learning curve! We got our pup last year and it has been hard. Get good advice. We have a trainer we work with and also go to a ringcraft and socialisation group too. Good to have a circle of people you can ask.
Dogs are subtle! There are lots of signs they aren't happy before they snap. Lip licking etc. unless they are asleep. What was the parent of that child thinking? No kid should run at a sleeping dog screaming.

SuperBeagle · 17/06/2017 23:03

I probably wouldn't have taken her to a BBQ with lots of people when you've only had her for 2.5 weeks. That could've been quite distressing.

She needs time to settle in and she needs time to realise that you and your family are her people and that she can trust you.

Broken11Girl · 17/06/2017 23:17

I'm glad you're calmer now OP. I'm not a dog fan, can't stand 'oh my badly trained rottweiler wouldn't hurt a fly' owners, but even I don't think you need to return her.
The kids (and their parents) were in the wrong. In both instances their behaviour wasn't just kids being overenthusiastic, but really quite threatening. As pp said, DC need to be taught to behave around animals. You were supervising your dog, as you managed to grab both kids. Neither child was actually hurt.
I also agree with pp that bringing a dog you've had 2.5 weeks to a busy event with lots of unfamiliar people on a hot day maybe wasn't the best idea, not piling on and having a go though. Your plan sounds more than enough. Agree today wasn't really her.

Lottielottie42 · 17/06/2017 23:27

Don't take her to bbqs for a start my Ddog is very sensitive and unsettled I don't put her in situations with a lot going on .

Tinseleverywhere · 17/06/2017 23:36

Yes keep her to less busy occasions for now. Once she is more settled it might be a good idea to introduce her to small children slowly in more controlled conditions. Do you have any in the family or friends kids, who would be able to sit quite quietly in the room with her or join you on walks in a sensible way?

honeyroar · 18/06/2017 00:05

I think it would be pretty unfair to blame the dog in these circumstances. She has barely had chance to catch her breath and settle in her new home and she's taken to a party of strangers on a hot day. You don't know her well enough and she won't feel that she knows/trusts you properly either. Both children have barged up to her in an over excited/aggressive manner, thus frightening her. Now you are fully aware that this scares her..

I think this dog can be worked with. Speak to a good dog trainer and work with them. Give her time. The fact that she is good in your family home with all your family is a great sign that it's not her general behaviour, it's fear.

Original poster

Harumff · 18/06/2017 07:19

Thanks everyone, I will take all your advice on board. I now feel absolutely awful for having taken her yesterday but I just want to point out that it wasn't a party full of strangers - there were a dozen members of my family, all of whom she had met before, in a very large garden where she had plenty of space to herself. I was clearly naive to think she was settled and fine as she has been very sociable with everyone coming to the house and it didn't even cross my mind that she wasn't ready for this. She seemed absolutely fine until the little girl showed up.
I can now see it wasn't a good idea so soon and will definitely not hold her behaviour against her.

OP posts:

Nancy91 · 18/06/2017 07:27

Dogs snap as a warning sometimes, it isn't a bite that just didn't land if you get what I mean. Kids don't understand dog body language and their parents need to teach them. It's not your fault or your dog's fault that she reacted like this, dogs growl and snap to say "stop it" and I can see why she wanted the kids to stop. Don't worry about it.

SparklingRaspberry · 18/06/2017 10:55

I don't think your dog has done anything wrong and rehoming it wouldn't even be an option for me. Nor would I feel the need to get a behaviourist.

On both occasions a child has suddenly ran up to it, probably spooking her making her uncomfortable. One invaded her space and came up screeching with a stick when all she wanted to do was enjoy her walk time, and the other invaded her space on a hot day when all she wanted to do was sleep.

The children are the issue not your dog.

It's not like she's randomally snapped at these children for no reason what so ever. And I know you said the second child had autism, but she should still be taught (and watched!) not to approach dogs like this.

I second the idea of having a playpen for her for when she wants to be left alone. And warn children not to approach her.

Sprog19 · 18/06/2017 23:25

This is a very timely thread for me and I hope you don't mind me hjiacking it Harumff. We adopted a 9 month old dog three weeks ago - she is a complete mix of breeds but looks as if she may have collie in her. DS2 (14) is severely autistic - his noises and movements can be unpredictable. At the beginning she was clearly nervous of him but within two days became much more settled. Over the last two days however she has snapped at him twice - once as he walked past the kitchen table when she was sitting under it and this evening she followed him in from the garden and snapped at the backs of his legs. Luckily I was close by both times and grabbed her harness. They have never been alone together and although I can see that she may have been startled the first time, the second time was not only unprovoked, but appeared quite deliberate. It has shaken me up quite a bit to be honest - we are consulting a behaviourist tomorrow.

Sprog19 · 18/06/2017 23:29

Oh and unlike the children in the OP, DS never approaches the dog deliberately, if you see what I mean. He's very wary of her. But I think maybe she feels threatened by his unpredictable noises and movements, neither of which he can control.

honeyroar · 19/06/2017 18:19

That does sound a bit more serious. Could you have a chat with the rescue? See what they suggest?

Is the nipping at his heals a sort of herding nip? I used to work somewhere where the collie used to follow the horses around doing that.

EezerGoode · 19/06/2017 18:24

I've child with autism...as with my other kids he was taught not to run over to dogs and to approach carefully if it's ok with the owner..yr dog was rudely awoken ,by loud noises coming towards him...I bet a lot wouldn't like that...yr dog is still getting to know you all....maybe you need slower introductions to other people ,and tell them to be considerate around yr new dog

Humphreyhippo · 19/06/2017 18:52

We spoke with a behaviourist today - she said the behaviour sounds like 'stare-stalk-nip' which is a trait of working type dogs and very difficult to eradicate completely. It was more at his calves than his heels.

Humphreyhippo · 19/06/2017 18:54

Sorry have name changed - forgot to say!

honeyroar · 19/06/2017 21:56

Yes that's what the collie I knew used to do with the horses. It wasn't my dog and we never got to the bottom of it. I always wondered if it needed a job, like agility or something to give it a focus.

Humphreyhippo · 19/06/2017 22:29

Yes I think that is what she needs - she's very intelligent and agile.

SleightOfMind · 21/06/2017 21:32

Harumff you didn't do anything wrong. These things happen.
I would say that it's important to replace her new worries about younger children with some positive associations as soon as possible.
Do you have any friends with dog savvy, under 6yr old DCs you could go for a walk with?
Equip the children with tiny cubes of cheese and ask them not to touch DDog with hands as she's scared.

SleightOfMind · 21/06/2017 21:35

Oh, missed out that they can throw her some cheese whenever they want to.

stonecircle · 21/06/2017 22:26

Perfectly understandable reaction on both occasions. Thinking how my 3 would have probably reacted -
Old dog would have been terrified
Middle dog would have snarled, snapped and barked
Young dog would have thought, 'yippee - game on!!!' and probably launched herself at the child on each occasion causing complete mayhem and probably some harm (lab/German shepherd cross)

You get to know your dog and anticipate how they might react to things so you will learn to deal with situations better.

I once slapped my prank-loving teenage DS when he crept up behind me. I thought the house was empty and he terrified the living day lights out of me. Complete reflex reaction - my hand rose up as I spun round. I was mortified and very upset. But thankfully he didn't send me back

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