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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Boston Terriers or french bulldog

87 replies

Magpiemagpie · 16/05/2017 06:23

We would like to get another dog as our old girl is getting on a bit now and only likes short walks
She is also a huge huge dog so I would like something smaller that won't crush me when they sit on the sofa and take over
Initially I have been researching the French Bulldogs but I have recently met a few BT which I really like . They all seem so friendly and lively which I like but I like the fact that they aren't as squat as the frenchies
Anyone had either of these dogs
Thanks

OP posts:
CornflakeHomunculus · 16/05/2017 17:38

Is there a breed club or society?

Although it's still worth going through them for breeder recommendations, the Boston breed club doesn't appear to be that great in terms of being open and honest about health. The only health issues they mention on their site are the two types of cataracts the breed can suffer from and luxating patella. Nothing about BOAS, hemivertebrae or LGMD.

The French Bulldog Club are much better in that regard and run their own reasonably good health scheme, however uptake of it hasn't been that great. I've just had a look at their published results (updated a month ago) and there are less than a hundred dogs who have attained the gold award.

The gold award requires dogs to have been graded for BOAS, had their nostrils graded (personally I feel the club is lax in allowing dogs with poor nostrils to pass given the high correlation between pinched nostrils and BOAS), been pronounced clear of heart murmurs by a cardiologist, had their patellas checked, been DNA tested for hereditary cataracts and degenerative myelopathy, and to have been screened for hemivertebrae. To me this is the absolute minimum any Frenchie breeder should be doing, as well as breeding for much more moderate features, all the health testing in the world isn't going to help if the breed still has no face. There are another couple of DNA tests which breeders should be utilising (congenital hypothyreosis and cystinuria) as well as those prescribed by the scheme.

Like Bostons they suffer with a very high propensity for needing c-sections, over 80% of Frenchie litters aren't self whelped. Similarly, the reason for this is the shape they've been bred into and it's another reason why breeders should actively be breeding away from current conformational trends.

FBs are much better off in terms of genetic diversity, with an EPS of 132.28 and an average COI of 5% however breeders still need to be aiming to maintain that diversity as much as possible.

In the last ten years there's been a massive upsurge in the numbers of Frenchies being bred. In 2007 only 692 were registered with the KC, in 2016 the number registered with the KC was 21,470. Unfortunately for the breed a pretty high proportion of FB breeders are doing so to capitalise on their popularity, knowing that people will still fork out thousands for a pup even with no health testing or anything else in place. There's also a huge trend for producing non-standard colours (which then sell for silly money) with little consideration given to anything but the colour of that dog and the colours they could potentially produce. It's not uncommon to see kennels clearly spending considerable amounts of money on DNA testing for colour but doing very little health testing Hmm

As well as approaching the breed clubs I'd actually also suggest joining the CRUFFA FB group if you're interested in getting a puppy of a brachy breed. There are a number of breeders in the group who (despite the frequent ire of supposed breed enthusiasts, often breed club members) are doing everything they can to breed consistently healthy and far less exaggerated individuals whilst retaining breed character and enough type to be recognisably Frenchies/Bostons/bulldogs/etc.

CornflakeHomunculus · 16/05/2017 17:51

This breeder (based in the Netherlands) is a fantastic example of a responsible Frenchie breeder, the breed would be in a far better state if there were more like her around.

Magpiemagpie · 16/05/2017 18:33

Actually Nancy I've been lucky 4 times with the genetic mess of Bulldogs not just once If you read my thread you will see I have mentioned that I have always had them and I'm very familiar with the bulldog breed .that why I want another one bull type dog but something smaller is preferable .
There are plenty of people out there who would be a far far worse owner than myself especially if they are judgmental assholes like yourself .
I have no intention of running out and buying one this instance .
I want to take my time ( just like I did with my Bulldogs to get the healthiest example of the breed ) although in your opinion that would be never .

Unlike you I haven't been rude or felt the need to insult anyone . Telling me that I don't care about the welfare of dogs is ridiculous . If I didn't care about any animals welfare I wouldn't have posted for people opinions about them and for advice

I have thanked people for there help and postings about there dogs and cornflake hugely informative post on both of the breeds

And yes I will most probably buy one at some point . If that makes me a a selfish cunt , I can live with it quite happily .at least I know that any dog I buy or get from a rescue won't be a five minute wonder pet and got rid of when it's no longer what I want .or no longer dog of them moment like many people do.

Shoot me if that don't fit in with your superior judgment but I couldn't give a shit about what people on the net think .

OP posts:
Magpiemagpie · 16/05/2017 18:35

Thank you cornflakes I will have a look at that CRUFFA Fb group later
Thanks for your very helpful posts really appreciate it

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 16/05/2017 18:37

You don't give a shit what people on the net think?
Maybe don't ask on an Internet forum then?Confused
Cornflake that's really sad about the breed society. I wanted a wolfhound and found the breeders and club/society open and honest about the multitude of possible health issues. Shame if a breed club doesn't actually put the health of the breed first. All too common though I fear. Sad

Nancy91 · 16/05/2017 18:54

You are buying a designer dog based on looks. Your bulldog is healthy for a bulldog, it is unhealthy compared to normal dogs. You are cruel for buying 4 dogs like this from a breeder and supporting the disgusting inbreeding and and exaggeration of unhealthy and uncomfortable features in these dogs. If you cared about dogs you would get one from a rescue or at least a healthy breed from a breeder.

I believe people with experience of this breed, including a VET have advised you against this breed.

If you don't want people on the internet to judge you, don't post on the internet. You are both cruel and in denial - hence you ignoring many of the posts agreeing with my point of view.

Magpiemagpie · 16/05/2017 18:59

wolfiefan

I should have been more clearer .
I do value the advice that I have been given on here .from both yourself and all the others who have posted informative information and links . It's been very helpful & I really appreciate that people have taken there time to post .

I don't value advice or take advice from judgmental people who know nothing about me or my present dog and say that I shouldn't buy a dog simply because they don't agree with my prefered choice of breed , and don't actually post anything that helpful other than to rant about the breed .

OP posts:
Nancy91 · 16/05/2017 19:03

I know that your dog is unhealthy and has skewed your view of what a dog should be like. Obviously you don't care about the welfare of the poor Boston Terriers who suffer because you want them to look that way Sad

Magpiemagpie · 16/05/2017 19:04

Nancy you obviously didn't read my previous post where I clearly stated I would be happy to get a rescue or a rehomed Boston terrier and that it dont neccessarily need to be a puppy . I'm not that precious that I want a cute fluffy bundle of fur . An older rescue Boston Terrier would be fine with me . And like I said I'm not In any rush either .

I know what breed of dog I want . Terribly sorry if thats not acceptable to you .

OP posts:
sparechange · 16/05/2017 19:13

It's not 'a rant about the breed'
It is honest reservations about the appalling health that these poor creatures endure because your 'preferences' are so fucked up

You're defensive and aggressive responses show you clearly don't give a shit about the welfare of the dog and just want a certain look, and damn the consequences of the poor dog as a result of it

How many more vets, trainers and animal care professionals need to tell you how wrong it is before you get your head out of the sand?

Oh that's right, your selfish breed preferences come first and anyone else trying to get you to see sense is just 'ranting'

JigglyTuff · 16/05/2017 19:42

Well this thread has been hugely enlightening. Who knew vets held me in such contempt? And I'd recently thought the doghouse was actually a much nicer place to hang out than people said. How wrong I was.

OP - if you'd like to talk to some Boston owners about Bostons, please PM me and I'll send you some links.

And if anyone's being aggressive here, it really isn't the OP.

Blackfellpony · 16/05/2017 20:05

I'm also in the veterinary field and wouldn't touch either breed with a barge pole.
I've also met a few frenchies with huge behavioural and temprament issues and have found this is becoming more frequent, perhaps due to the way many of them are being bred.

I really don't understand why people thing buying dogs that live short painful lives is acceptable.

As for thinking 9 is old, how incredibly sad Sad

Wolfiefan · 16/05/2017 20:32

Thanks for replying Magpie.
I can't criticise. My dream dog was a wolfhound. The ones who have heart problems and liver shunt and bone cancer and bloat etc etc.
I wanted one for about two decades. When I was in the position to get a dog I spent two years trying to talk myself out of it. She's 8 months now. I love her to bits. Blush

Lordofmyflies · 16/05/2017 21:56

We have a Boston. She is an absolute delight. She doesn't shed, doesn't smell, is lovely with children and very easy to train. They are used as therapy dogs in the US due to their easy going manner and love of humans, yet is also perfectly happy going for a run and long walks.
Ours doesn't appear to have breathing difficulties, certainly doesn't snort or snore unlike many frenchie and Bulldogs I've met.
We spent a year finding her though, made sure all relevant tests had been done and met both parents so we knew the morphology of her. Her mum gave birth to 4 pups naturally.
As with any dog, do your research properly, take time to meet both parents and ask lots of questions, but she really is a fantastic dog.

friendlyflicka · 16/05/2017 22:15

Wolfiefan I love Irish Wolfhounds. I didn't know how problematic they were. I have always had sight hounds. Biggest collie lurcher but mostly whippets and now springy italian greyhounds. Are Wolfhounds similar lazy until spot prey, mad running in circles etc?

Siwdmae · 16/05/2017 22:55

I don't understand why the OP is saying he/she is prepared to pay for issues with the dog. Why not get a dog which is fit for function rather than knowingly get a dog which may have huge problems/suffering in its future. Ethically and morally so, so wrong. By buying a dog which is so popular and has such problems, you are furthering the drive and market for these dogs.

You have had some very good information, OP, I doubt I can add to the advice and obviously you aren't worried about a dog you buy potentially having issues. This is something ethical buyers have been trying to avoid for years. I know I'd like to see the popularity of brachy dogs diminishing, fat chance with people knowingly going off to get one, despite being armed with the facts.

Get a dog with the ability to breathe properly

This ^^

Wolfiefan · 16/05/2017 23:06

There are lots of issues in the breed and they arent blessed with longevity. She's still at the bouncy puppy stage but pretty chilled out when not mid play!

Nancy91 · 16/05/2017 23:41

Magpie I can see you're ignoring advice from people who are more knowledgeable about these things (vets etc). There is no point getting on the defensive and pretending you might get one from a rescue (as if any of these currently fashionable dogs will be in your local rescue...). I can only urge you to get a dog without health problems, I can't force you, but if you go ahead then you will be supporting the suffering of innocent dogs for the financial gain of unscrupulous breeders.

There are other small and healthy breeds which have amazing temperaments and are adorable. A lot of these lovely dogs are sleeping in kennels tonight because they just aren't as popular as designer dogs. But I guess they are lucky because at least they don't live in constant discomfort like flat faced dogs.

Magpiemagpie · 17/05/2017 06:09

I don't see where I have been aggressive. I'm the most laid back person I know although I do swear a fair amount .

And yes Nancy I would get a rescue Boston terrier or one that someone no longer wants or can look after . Surprisingly there are a few about .

Being such an amazing mind reader you should know this of course

My bulldog isn't my only dog we also have a collie x who is a rehomed
dog but I see the bulldog as more my dog as I always walk her and I choose her as a puppy . My Dh walk the collie as he likes to go for longer walks and she is perfect for this . We have also had a Staffie who passed away recently age 15 .

And Im not ignoring the advice of people who are more knowledgable . I have a bulldog and have had several of them over the years so I am perfectly aware of the problems they can have

I've read the advice given but yes your absolutely right I will get the dog that I want . Regardless of what people think of me . If I worried about what people think of me I would never leave my house.

jiggly tuff thank you .
lol you haven't been here long then , the doghouse is way worse than IABU .

I'm not surprised though the general attitude on here is that if you don't take a dog from a rescue or a certain type of dog. you shouldn't get a dog at all , and that your lining the money of BYB. It's only nice in here if your doing the right thing and getting what is seen as the right dog by others .
Generally anyone buying a puppy is told they are the devils spawn and need to get to a rescue straight away

Wolfiefan. .your dog is adorable glad that you got the dog that you wanted in the end .she looks very chilled out

OP posts:
Lordofmyflies · 17/05/2017 06:58

We also have a rescue collie as well as our Boston, who has had numerous health problems and behavioural difficulties. In my experience people do tend to tar brachy dogs with the same brush - more often than not refer to my boston as a frenchie! These are fellow dog walkers.
As with all breeds, there are health issues, yes sadly I think the bulldog breeds have experienced concentrated breeding, but it is possible to find breeders who are now breeding with a longer snout, just like breeders of non-sloping shepards, non-syringo King Charles, etc etc. That aside, our Boston is a gorgeous dog.

picklemepopcorn · 17/05/2017 07:29

It would be lovely if you were able to get the breed you want from a rescue. Frenchies can get in trouble and end up in rescue- they need quite experienced owners I believe, due to the stubbornness and last house training. Sadly, their fashionable status means they are often chosen by inexperienced owners who give up on them.

I couldn't buy from a breeder when there are dogs sat waiting in rescues. Particularly not one where every healthy dog is born alongside several unhealthy ones. Poor dabs.

Wolfiefan · 17/05/2017 07:55

Hmm. Not always chilled out. That was just one photo.
Yes you may find this breed in rescue. If breeds are popular then people will buy one because of that. Not knowing what they are taking on or getting bored when the attraction wears off then dog is dumped. Sad.
(OP not saying this is you BTW!)

LumelaMme · 17/05/2017 07:56

What Cornflake said. All of it.

People, trying to guilt-trip the OP is counter-productive.

Magpiemagpie · 17/05/2017 09:01

I have no issues getting one from a rescue or one that needs to be rehomed privately . Although Nancy is a mindreader and has said that I'm pretending about that . So of course she must be right .

I've had dogs for 25 years & kept everyone till they passed away and would never get rid of a dog because it's costing money , or haven't got the time . Once I get a dog that it's they are with us for life no matter how crazy or stubborn or untrainable they are .

Having had bulldogs which I have had for over 20 years I liked them way before they became the popular breed that they are now . And I agree a lot of people get them without knowing what they are like , they equate bulldogs as big and stocky and over feeding them and that's awful for them to be overweight .

I'm not going for a BT dog because it's popular or dog of the moment . Nor would I keep it a few months then get rid of it .

If I wanted to I could go out right now and buy one but I don't as I want to consider all my options

LumelaMMe
Yep your right guilt tripping never works ( well not with me anyway )
I'm quite happy to listen and read the reasonable replys even if it's not what I want to hear .

But rants and shouting about how I shouldn't own any dog go right over my head and I pay it no attention .

Cornflakes post was very helpful and informative as was a few others

Nancys was a rant as she admited when she wrote it so I pay it about as much attention as I would my dog pissing on a tree

OP posts:
Nancy91 · 17/05/2017 09:45

Magpie I'm not sure why you dislike what I'm saying so much. I am trying to do a good thing for both Boston Terriers and dogs in rescues. Go to the fictitious rescue centre and get a fictitious Boston Terrier there then. Problem solved Grin

Why post on here and then ignore posts from people who work with dogs for a living and vets who know a lot more than you do? Hmm

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