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The doghouse

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Original poster

Collie growling at toddler

26 replies

Houseofwails · 01/05/2017 19:37

Hi,

I'm really hoping for some advice. My heart has just sunk, I've just removed my 17month old from my welsh collie twice in two hours as she has been growling at her.
She's a rescue from a bad background, we got her 5 years ago as a 5 month old pup. We've always taught our toddler to be gentle and always mean to never leave them unsupervised but it's easier said than done. We have just had a family dog visiting for three days who is very relaxed and this has led to an increased interest in dogs by our little one. The growling has happened in the few hours since the other dog left. When the growling occurred both times the toddler was trying to cuddle the dog and was being noisy. The dog looked scared.
We have to get rid of her don't we? They are normally fine together but I'm so worried that we would now be silly to not heed the warnings.
I love her so much and she is such a fab little dog but has issues and would be difficult to rehome. Equally the worst outcome for all of us would not be preventing this from ending badly. I feel like I've let my dog down but have to protect my baby.
What should I do?

OP posts:
BiteyShark · 01/05/2017 19:44

Firstly you should not be letting your 17 month cuddle the dog. I suspect if you observed the body language and eyes of the dog then you would probably see that it doesn't want to be cuddled. Look up dogs body language to see when they are telling you.

I cuddle my dog but always observe whether his body language is saying he is ok with it or not but I am an adult and can safely make that judgement.

peukpokicuzo · 01/05/2017 19:44

Don't leave them unsupervised together. I do not believe this is too difficult. Pet-gates (like stair gates but across a doorway) exist. Zone for dog and zone for toddler except when there is a grownup with nothing to do except be really vigilant in proper supervision. Of course you would be silly not to heed the warnings but you have a responsibility to this dog too.

Teddy6767 · 01/05/2017 19:44

Could you keep them apart but introduce the dog to the toddler when he/she is being quiet/asleep. And stroke the dog in a soothing way so it feels as relaxed as possible. Keep doing this over a few days and then introduce the dog to the toddler when he/she is being noisier. If she's still growling then you'll probably have to re home her as it's just not worth the risk of her biting your child (or worse).
My cat is the same with young children and hates the noise they make. He always looks terrified and will hiss and growl. I don't have any kids yet but when I do he'll have to be kept in seperate rooms.

Wolfiefan · 01/05/2017 19:46

You need to keep them apart. Stair gates would be useful here. They would protect your baby and ensure your dog doesn't lose her home.

PippaFawcett · 01/05/2017 19:48

We had a Collie who did not like children - and by this I mean she did not like it when they tugged her fur, squeezed her, etc etc. It was not the Collie's fault, she used to growl to warn them/show us that she didn't like their behaviour. We heeded her warnings and never left them alone together and all was fine. Ps. We weren't actively letting them do those things to her, but toddlers go from a nice supervised stroke to a quick tug in a moment.

Bubble2bubble · 01/05/2017 19:49

You urgently need to teach your toddler not to cuddle your dog.
A stairgate of two to provide safe areas, without leaving dog or toddler out of sight, will make your life much easier.

Wolfiefan · 01/05/2017 19:49

Also a safe place your dog can retreat to and child isn't allowed may help.

BiteyShark · 01/05/2017 19:52

Agree with the other advice. Separate with child gates and supervise when together until your child is old enough to understand that the dog wants to be left alone.

Sandsnake · 01/05/2017 19:59

Would a kennel help? As somewhere the dog can feel safe and call their own rather than as a punishment I mean. I am not a dog owner but also have a 17 month old who is often around my parents' rescue Welsh collie. My parents' collie has growled at him very occasionally, always when DS is too near to his space. As it's not home though it's not too much of a pain to make sure they're always supervised.

Original poster
Houseofwails · 01/05/2017 20:00

I should probably have mentioned we do use stair gates where possible, we live in a large open plan house which makes partitioning difficult and the dog will spin if stressed and shut in a small space.
I obviously don't "let" my 17month old cuddle dogs! Sometimes though toddlers do get away from you and into other areas of the house or other people in the house forget to close off areas. It just is impossible to have eyes on my toddler every single second of the day. This is what worries me. That and my dog living a lonely life shut outside or in a room on their own all day, she does deserve better and usually hangs out with us and is fine as she has room to move away from the toddler.
Any previous interaction has been with me reassuring the dog and the dog always looks like she's suffering it not enjoying it.

OP posts:
wheresthel1ght · 01/05/2017 20:03

My mum has a collie who didn'tike kids when they got her, lots of training and gentle introduction helps - get a professional in to help you.

And stop making excuses, it is very easy to keep kids and dogs separate if you make an effort and I say that as a mum and owner of 2 rescue dogs, 1 who came from a neglect and abuse background.

CornflakeHomunculus · 01/05/2017 20:10

If it's a sudden change in behaviour it's always worth a vet check just to rule out any physical issues.

Not leaving them unsupervised together, carefully managing any interaction between the two and providing a safe area for the dog she can retreat to knowing your daughter can't (or won't be allowed to) follow her are definitely the right steps to take straight away. Your dog is making it very clear she's not happy being cuddled and you need to make sure she's not put in that position again. It could well be she's been throwing off stress signals in similar situations for a while which you haven't picked up, hence why she's started growling. The growling is actually a good thing, it means that whilst she's trying to communicate her discomfort very strongly she's still exercising restraint by not snapping or even biting.

I'd also recommend working your way through the resources on this list, there's loads of really good information on those links.

If you're not confident in dealing with this alone then I'd look for a reputable behaviourist or trainer through one of these organisations. They will be able to come to you and help you put management systems in place to keep your dog happy and your daughter safe.

CornflakeHomunculus · 01/05/2017 20:18

Any previous interaction has been with me reassuring the dog and the dog always looks like she's suffering it not enjoying it.

This is exactly how children end up getting bitten "with no warning". Regardless of you reassuring your dog she's been making it very clear she's not enjoying it and this is why she's had to escalate to growling. You absolutely need to listen to her and not put her into situations with your daughter where she's not comfortable or she will have no choice but to continue to escalate which ultimately means snapping and eventually biting.

A decent professional will be able to help you manage things so both your dog and daughter remain happy and safe around each other.

BiteyShark · 01/05/2017 20:28

OP please don't get defensive we are all trying to help you here have both a happy dog and child. You do need to supervise or separate when you can't supervise and I would recommend looking up body language of dogs as it looks like you are missing signs that the dog is giving you.

PippaFawcett · 01/05/2017 20:31

IIRC, and I was a child myself so I could be wrong, our Collie would put her tail down and her ears back when she was irritated. She was very affectionate indeed but liked attention on her own terms really and didn't suffer fools - and children are quite annoying!

CornflakeHomunculus · 01/05/2017 20:35

This site (which is on the list I linked to above) is all about understanding dog body language and in particular how that relates to interactions between dogs and children.

Vegansnake · 01/05/2017 22:36

My dog was 2 when I had my last child...they were never alone together.we had stairgates on most rooms,one in one out..dog in one room ,small person in another.any interaction was well monitored,no problems here,small person ,had 8 lovely years with the best dog ever.

AnUtterIdiot · 02/05/2017 08:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CottonSock · 02/05/2017 08:25

Do what feels right for your family.

LilCamper · 02/05/2017 12:10

Using stair gates is not shutting either of them away as they can still see you and each other just not interact.

LizzieMacQueen · 02/05/2017 12:12

Is she resource guarding? My dog does this if she has pinched a sock.

tabulahrasa · 02/05/2017 12:32

If you've not got one already, get a crate - you don't need to crate train the dog, just it's a very easy area to police your DC from staying away from when the dog goes there.

Then, just intervene whenever your DC tries to harass the dog and take the dog with you when you leave the room.

It really doesn't need to be hugely complicated and you don't need to shut the dog away, just take them with you when you pee or whatever, it's not like you'd be leaving a child that age for huge amounts of time anyway.

Blackfellpony · 02/05/2017 20:01

We have a nervous dog who does not like attention from the baby at all. He is older and tries to stay in the furthest possible place he can from the baby at all times!

We keep them separate at all times unless toddler is strapped in to some sort of device. We have stair gates and the dogs are behind them at all times unless DS is asleep or in my arms. Possibly overreaction on my part as dogs have never growled but it's not worth the risk.

We have a crate that's dogs safe space too for times I can't be watching.

It's not too hard to keep everyone separate. Dogs can see us through gates but are more relaxed as they can't get sat on or have their ears poked.

Have you thought about a behaviourist?

Ylvamoon · 02/05/2017 23:15

Lots of good advice... and her is some from someone who was in your situation (including the open plan house!).
My dog, a lovely PR Terrier, did not like small children... he walked away, growling when toddler DD came close! I have to add, he was otherwise fine, in fact a well trained & very successful agility dog. (and one of 2 dogs in the house).
Anyway, we did try the separation thing, did not work as oh became very stressed and agitated about the dogs whereabouts. The dogs became stressed because they where banned from the main living space while DD was playing.
No amount of walking did calm them down & they developed some unwanted habits. Barking, scratching howling to name a few.
We did get a dog trainer in, but no amount of gentle introduction could reassure my dog that my DD was no threat to him. Toddlers are erratic movers and not the most gentle of beings! Some dogs find this difficult to cope/ judge.
(My dog gave clear signals and took himself away from the situation, but a curious toddler won't understand and things can change in a split second.)
In the end, we did re-home our PR Terrier. Some things are just not worth the risk.

I'd say, try but do what feels right for you.

Veterinari · 03/05/2017 08:47

You need to train your toddler and look up active supervision. Your toddler should NOT be cuddling your dog.

Growling is not aggression - it is your (very good) dog clearly communicating that she is uncomfortable - please listen to her!

Give her space, train your child, read these

imnotamonster.org/any-dog-can-bite/

www.robinkbennett.com/2013/08/19/why-supervising-dogs-and-kids-doesnt-work/

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