Breeders - new pup

[dogfused]

Be gentle! We're on the lookout for a pup and I have been making enquiries from breeders of the breed we want. I now know of a couple of litters due December/January. I know the pups from these litters will be health checked and that their parents have all the relevant, up to date health checks. This is the route we have gone with our previous two dogs - different breed - and we have paid a price which reflects excellent breeding.

This time around, my instinct is to go the same route and to wait until one of these pups, or another if these aren't right, come along. However - there's always a 'but' - the pup will be a birthday present for our 13 yr old DC. Said child is very responsible and has long wanted an animal to call their own. We've previously discussed getting another dog, of a smaller breed so are happy that now is the right time and it is a considered decision. However, the birthday is about here and it's a long time to ask said child to wait (in their eyes) potentially until next Feb/March - they'd reluctantly wait a while I think but I have a DH who thinks its not fair to make them wait that long and that, perhaps, I'm being a bit precious by going the full, breeder pedigree.

So I reluctantly looked on the online advertising sites. There are pups which, to my eyes, are clearly puppy farm - shed, wood shaving bedding etc. Then there is another ad for pups photographed indoors. Spoke to owner. Mum and Dad are both KC registered however neither have the relevant health checks and clearly the pups don't either. It's Mum's second litter but I don't know what age she is. The pups live out in a shed but can be viewed with their Mum. These pups are around 1/2 the cost of what the other litters would be.

If it was me, just me, I'd wait however I'm up against it a bit .... which doesn't mean I'm going to go with the household majority opinion but I want to make sure I'm not being silly by standing by my beliefs. Lots of people must buy pups without the relevant checks. Not sure that I could say this is a puppy farm, I don't think so but do think the pups are bred for profit rather than continuing bloodlines. I'm also committing our family to double the spend by waiting. I think I know what many of you will say but am interested in all opinions.

Thank you.

Buy responsibly, it's the only way. If your 13 year old is as mature and caring about animals then surely that's what they would want too? I don't think it's a good idea to pass on the idea that animals are instant purchases

I was desperate for a dog a child a child and I'd have happily waited any length of time if it had meant I was allowed to have one!!

Aside from the fact you'd be helping perpetuate a cruel (at worst) and unethical (at best) industry by buying from a less than ideal breeder it just honestly isn't worth taking the risk when it comes to health, temperament and the start the pups have had in life.

Agree fully with costa you will be responsible for your pup for its lifetime and it could become very expensive if it comes with any health problems not all show up when they are a tiny cute puppy. Plus toilet training in the depths of winter is no fun come spring time it will be much easier. Also maybe just get your daughter a present for her birthday and explain that you have agreed to get a dog when the right pup is available. Loads of disturbing footage is available of puppy farms and the ways in which they dupe people into buying their pups it's really not worth it.

I think that the saddest think about these breeders is not the puppies but the breeding bitches left behind. They are never walked, loved or let outside of their prisons. It's the most cruel and miserable existence.

I still don't understand why more people don't rescue, many have puppies or older dogs with either a known history or born there.

Please don't do it, think of the breeding dogs that never escape the cycle.

Please don't do this. What you would effectively be saying is 'Ooooh, puppy farming is nasty, isn't it? But my DC's want for a puppy trumps the animal's welfare so I will just do it anyway.'

If your DC is sensible enough to own a dog, they are sensible enough to know that they shouldn't be bought and sold like handbags or trainers and it's better to wait for the right one.

It's often a 'dummy' mum that can be seen too, brought in from elsewhere for viewings. Whole family set ups are often fake too, unscrupulous people get paid to pretend that the puppies are born in to a family.

This is the tip of the iceburg, puppies are big business.

If the pups are due Dec then you can visit regularly after they're born so it seems less time to wait, I wouldn't buy from any breeders I wasn't 100% as your then contributing to them continuing and encouraging others

Thank you. You have all said what I believe. It's best to wait. We've waited months and months before. Please don't think I'm going to,support puppy farming. I'm not, I just need to know that I'm doing the right thing in going with my instincts which is to wait!

It's hard when you are under pressure from family. Show your dh a few videos of puppy farm conditions, I had no idea how sneaky these people are until I joined a group online.

Good for you op. Honestly. It'll be worth the wait. Paying for a pup from a back yard breeder may cost you more long term anyway as they can come with numerous health problems.

If your DH has doubts about how important it is to go to a decent breeder then get him to watch this episode of Panorama. It shows just what lengths puppy farmers and importers will go to in order to make pups look like they're coming from nice family homes.

That other place sounds like a puppy farm to me too. Not health checked? Live in a shed?

The thing is even if it's just a byb rather than anything to do with farming.

Without health testing and any knowledgable putting together of pedigrees - you're taking a gamble with the health of the puppy.

It could turn out fine, but there's the potential of lifelong painful health conditions and/or behavioural issues (aggression is to a fairly large extent genetic).

That's not what anyone wants.

Go with recommended widely knowb breeder every time as only then eoth pups health temperament an rearingbe paramount to the breeder as is the healt amd well being of mum too.

Only authentic breeders care more about their dog than the money and hence the animals dont suffer. Anything less and animal suffering isinvolved .
TBH a living creature doent sit well with tje whole idea of 'presents' and shoildnt be done as such as it totally undermines the gravity of resoonsibility and undertaking only promoting the possession and objectivity of the poor little pup. Do it outside of birthday when she has alrwady been to visit parent etc an realaes how hard itnis to give your money to decent nreeders for healthy pup. How else do others learn how to reject puppy farmers pitiful cruelties as like said they are very cunning

I would wait to get the right puppy, not sure how common the breed is but you could contact the breed club as they may know of other litters that aren't advertised?

I have a backstreet bred dog, honestly it's been an nightmare from day one health and temperament wise and I would never ever do it again...Genetics play a massive part in what you get!

It seems you're going to wait, OP, absolutely the right decision. I think if your DC knows you are waiting for the right puppy, the wait is actually much easier. In fact, our breeder was very good about sending us pictures, videos and updates on our boy. It was well worth the wait - we have a beautiful boy from health tested parents and his temperament is amazing.

Thanks again for all your input. DH and I don't agree on this but I've spoken to DC who isn't very happy but is a deep thinker and, I'm pretty confident that, given time, will agree that it's best to wait.

DH, who after telling me that it's pretty much snob factor and ordinary people don't go to fancy breeders has finally listened to me when I told him our childhood dogs were a mixed bag including a stray and her pups (she became a much loved pet) and that it was he and I who first went down the 'proper' breeder route when we went through a breed club to get our first dog together. Our second, after the first died many happy years later, was recommended by the lady who put me onto the first - she bred all the grandparents and if I go far enough back in their pedigrees, there's common ground. They were/are perfect dogs - looks, temperament, everything! Anyway, he has apologised and says he understands why I'm standing my ground but is worried there won't be a pup from either of these two possibilities and is disappointed for DC. Now I just need DC to lighten up!

Tab ... your point is exactly what I have tried to explain to both parties!

Anyway, the pup ready to go now is not coming here and that's a decision!!

Please involve her in the parent choosing exercise as from her brithday and she will get a rare insight into whats involved in finding a well cared for litter.

Yes - you're providing a good legacy for years to come when your own DC are making choices about their next dog and so on...

What breed of dog are you looking at?

I visited my Golden pup a few times before collecting her and her breeder emailed pics inbetween.

You can also keep your DD busy with buying puppy stuff, researching local training classes, finding a vet, looking a different foods and reading about her chosen breed.

The wait will be worth it!

Wouldn't touch a pup without health tests from both parents. I made a big error some years ago and bought from a 'hobby' breeder ie backyard breeder. Poor dog has dysplasia. I know this can happen even if the parents are hip scored, but I'd never risk it again, nor would I go the gumtree etc route.

Good on you for sticking to your guns. I really wish they would shut down sites like Pets4Homes. Any puppy that is too cheap for that breed should set your alarm bells ringing.

And it's not just your instincts though is it? It's about more than that - it's about getting a dog with a much better chance of having a long healthy life. And for your DC, it's about teaching them that a dog is not a toy - it's an animal and their delivery can't be timed to fit with their birthday.

I thought KC reg dogs should have relevant health checks? Very suss they don't have them.

Thanks all - DC has come round and, although disappointed no pup before Christmas, will go through the process and wait to get the right pup. Absolutely agree re it being right to wait, I wouldn't have phoned re the ad had it not been for a sad face and a husband questioning me .. and I'd rather it was a joint decision rather than me being bad guy.

You all make such good, relevant points and I agree with everything you say. Another thing is, a decent breeder will grill a potential purchaser about their set-up, this bloke didn't. He didn't care. We'll get the right pup, just need to be patient!

Cheers!