Can anyone recommend a breed?

[Greyhorses]

Not for me but for my mum. I have eyes for GSD only so can't think past something wolf looking and huge

Requirements are:
Small to medium ideally but not set in stone.
Easy to train, intelligent.
Good with small children as I have a baby who my mum babysits twice a week along with my dogs.
Must be able to be let off lead and be easily housetrained (so i think this rules out lots of toy breeds?)
Must be able to be left alone for short periods without loosing the plot.
We are not a gun dog type family and she does not really like spaniels, retrievers or Labradors. Also no bull breeds.

The ideal breed would come out with me and my GSD daily as we live in the same street, so not easily squishable but sensible enough to be happy at home once we have been out and about.

She loves corgis but they are very hard to get hold of. If only I could shrink a GSD in the wash it would be ideal but we think 3 very large dogs may be a bit much. This one would primerally live with my mum as I said but it will have dog company lots of the time.

We have thought about whippets but I have friends with them and they are mental and not easily trained
Poodles are also a maybe but my MILs are snappy nightmares?

So...can anyone think of a GSD like dog but smaller

Cockapoo? Hypoallergenic and don't malt? Mine was easily trained, loving, great company, soft and fluffy and super cute!!

Cockapoo? Hypoallergenic and don't malt? Mine was easily trained, loving, great company, soft and fluffy and super cute!!

Irish Terriers tick most of your boxes, they are hardy & robust, would put up with playing with GSD. My parents bitch is great on recall and plays with their cats with no problems. She loves people and will play for hours, but still loves a cuddle as well.

They are roughly the same height at the shoulder as a Whippet. They need to have their coat stripped about once a quarter.

Why not consider a lab? They are brilliant, very loyal, pretty easy to train and quite happy to spend quite a bit of time doing not a lot.

I would second a poodle or cockapoo. I have a cockapoo who would tick all of your boxes.

Also, have you considered a sheltie?

I don't dislike labs or spaniels, just don't want to own one

Hadn't considered a sheltie but will now!

I'd suggest one of the small terriers too, a Westie, Cairn, Border or Jack Russel.
Lalaland, your pictures of your Cairn fascinate me. I've bred, and shown, Cairns for over thirty years but have never had a puppy in a litter change colour so dramatically. Slightly yes, but never from cream brindle to dark grey.
I'd advise against a Scottie. Of the small terrier breeds they have the most volatile temperaments. I have friends who keep them & they all tend to be a bit unpredictable & feisty.
I know you said no bull type breeds but I wouldn't rule out a Staffy. They are real sheep in Wolves' clothing. You get more families with prams & young children packed round their rings at shows than any other.

Darklane - it is remarkable. She is my third cairn and I have never had this experience either. My vet has always told me she is 'such a good example of a cairn bitch'. She is 5 now and I photos of her at every stage. She is such a beautiful loving playful wee dog. Love her!

We love our Tibetian Spaniel

I had a Scottie, and he was fab. Very intelligent, housetrained easily, independent. Quite happy to be left alone once he'd had a good walk. Brilliant with people, especially children. He was a nightmare with other dogs though. Not all of them, mostly bigger ones that could hurt him, but that was enough to make every walk (on lead anyway) difficult. I now have a spinone, which fits your brief apart from gundog and being ok alone. Also she's quite big, even at 5 months. I don't think I could go back to a terrier, though dh would in an instant.

Mini Schnauzer...love our four year old girl. She's clever, friendly, completely devoted to myself and my children, doesn't moult and is constantly on my lap or right beside me. Gets on fabulously with the cats too... they snuggle up with each other.

Another one saying patterdale - my girl is 3.5 months now and lovely
Fits everything on your list - small to medium, very clever (she got 'sit' in 10 minutes) , good with kids etc

I am also a herding dog girl. GSD's are perfect in every way! I intended to get another shepherd when mine was 1 to 2 years old. I had no interest in gundogs at all. I also looked at corgis but they are very rare around here.

I ended up with a golden retriever!

Not a breed I ever wanted but my god, she is perfect. Such a happy go lucky personality compared to my serious GSD.

I still don't want a lab or spaniel or pointer but golden's are my one gundog love

My MIL's overgrown miniature schnauzer is an arse

Malinois?
The only time I've deviated from a gundog breed and can't recommend them highly enough. Slightly smaller than a GSD but just as brilliant.
Definitely wouldn't have a terrier if children are in the mix.

An airedale. They're a rare breed now. Great with kids.

I liked the lowland polish sheepdog I saw in the pub last night. Medium sized herding breed. Might be worth a look.

How big a puppy do you think your nervous dog would tolerate? EGLR have some gorgeous 4 month olds just in, which could work as they are young enough to be flexible, but old enough to be easier on the house training/walking/playing front

My Yorkshire Terrier ticks all the things you required in your OP.

This is Monty, he's 8 months now

Thank you all.
After a long chat we think we are going to stick to something on a similar line to what we have so are looking at the herding type breeds.

Currently loving the belgian sheoherds, tervuren and Groenendael but the waiting lists are long!

My current dog is a funny creature and won't accept anything older than a few months old, she gets irritated by teenagers unless she has known them from babies and won't tolerate puppy play from a stranger! We also have young children so I want to avoid issues if possible, the current two we have both have issues so I don't want someone else's mistakes this time as 2 difficult dogs are enough

Bearded Collie?

Rough Collie?

Smooth Collie?

Australian Shepherd?

Catalan Sheepdog?

Pyrenean Sheepdog?

Polish Lowland Sheepdog?

Miniature poodle. they don't have to be snappy. It's the way they are brought up. They are intelligent, easy to train and very pretty. However they do need to be clipped every six weeks which can get expensive.

Scottish terriers can be snappy - they are a one man/woman dog and can get defensive of their people. I have known a few, and they have all been lovely sweet dogs, but most of the owners said that they could be feisty and not terribly keen on children or other dogs (but probably depends how used to them they are).

Norfolk and norwich terriers are lovely little creatures and comparatively quiet for a terrier (i.e. - they only bark for a reason, and not because someone has closed their bin lid three streets away!). They aren't a very common breed, so tend to be expensive.

Japanese Chins are a nice dog and have no health problems that I am aware of, but again, not easy to get hold of.

Border terriers are nice little dos, as others have suggested, and are much easier to find and consequently less expensive. They are another breed that doesn't have a huge number of congenital problems so you can generally count on good health as well as good temperament.

My Pomeranian is fabulous with small kids (except when she's just had surgery in which case she's a grumpy shite). It's quite amusing as next to the 3 year old niece she looks like a full sized spitz!

Her recall is terrible but it's definitely my own fault for not working hard enough with her on it. She is brilliantly intelligent but gets bored easily.

Have you looked at Italian greyhounds? I wouldn't discount breeds because you know a snappy one though - I believe that most of it is how they're raised, people tend to baby the toy dogs which means they become a bit entitled.

Please think about a corgi, I have a seven month old Pembroke Corgi puppy at the moment and he is genuinely lovely, they are also struggling with numbers at the moment with corgis being put on the endangered native breeds list in 2013. They are also very robust but a trip hazard so beware. I would be very careful with cross-breeds because they can be the best of both breeds or the worst, you really don't know what you are getting. That is him below.

Thank you to everyone.

We have been out and looked at a few and thought hard.

The two breeds we love are the Groenendael and the cardigan welsh corgi...both very different. The groenendael seems more like what I am used to but I love the little corgi legs. The stories of nipping legs are the main thing putting me off a corgi but then again I have a collie and he does not nip despite the breed.

I do have a soft spot for a pom though but I feel it may be too small as the shepherds play rough!

We are going to have a think and try and speak to breeders of both and decide which direction to go in.