Those of you with aggressive dogs.

[Greyhorses]

Are there ever moments where you wish you could just give up? How do you get through them?
It's so frustrating having to plan every walk, miss out on fun things and worry about whether people or dogs are going to approach. I think I have aged 12 years in 12 months!

At what point did you just accept that your dog is horrible and give up trying to change them? Nothing I seem to do ever makes her any better and I am tempted to just never let her show her face In public again

I have a rescue collie who is very reactive. I am practising the "turn to me" whenever she is worried.
What is the "Look at that game"?
I am currently reading Patricia B. McConnell. Some excellent advice!
My life would be so much easier if the couple who walk the pack (at least 6) of barking shelties could try to keep them under control.
Somebody please tell me that she will get better!

She might sam - most dogs do improve, mine doesn't because it's caused by his health and because of a load of stuff we've never managed to get on top of that, which means we're very limited with what we can do to fix his behaviour.

Because I'm feeling brave today, I'm going to say what I think.

Being PTS is not the worst thing that can happen to an animal.

Keeping a potentially dangerous dog alive is completely irresponsible. I just can't understand why people do it. It's crap for the people, crap for the dog and a disaster waiting to happen.

When are you not feeling brave Bertrand? In my experience you always say what you think.

Yes, I'm sure everyone is aware of the ultimate option to pts.

Op, understand. Our JRT was like this to begin either, still can be sometimes though not with people save our postman who fortunately loves dogs and we are training JRT about postmen.

Don't know if either if these thoughts would help, but

a) do you use the yellow ribbon signal? Not recognised everywhere but useful, can google it. Should diminish the number of people approaching.

B) what I did, not recommended by trainer at all, was when a dog came in sight, we either sat still or walked away, with me reassuring as you would with a toddler and when we were a safe distance the training treat and pat would come out with " well done JRT, no barkies" said in exactly the same tone every time. Poor behaviour got a sorrowful " oh JRT" and no treat. Trainer said dreadful things would happen but it worked for us. He still hates poodles, I think he resents a superior intelligence, and doesn't like black labs. He also barks at strange men if we are in the car. But hey, can live with that.

The yellow ribbon is great I think Themodern. I came across one today who was off lead actually but it made sure I got my problem boy on the lead asap. His recall is excellent so crisis averted because other owner also got yellow ribbon his lead. It makes you react quicker.

It's so tough I feel like finally I'm getting out the other side with my boy - athough he will always have that unpredictable streak in him.

Have you managed to work out how close is too close? annoyingly this seems to change day by day I spent loads and loads of time just loitering in a big open space where he was just about in his comfort zone. My behaviourist said the more times he is "allowed" to react, the more he will learn to react. My aim was to try to never put him in a situation where he could react. I know, bloody impossible.

He started out on the complete opposite side of the field, still warily eyeing up dogs and strangers. I used balls, treats, "look at me", "find it", all while on lead so he began to loose focus on what was happening on the other side of the field miles away. We edged closer about an inch or two at a time over the course of 12 months. Every time he showed any signs of reaction, I moved right back into a space that I knew was in his comfort zone.

Admittedly, none of this works when there are rude owners and dogs.

Life is still a bundle of stress with him though. We have to manage strangers coming into the house dog goes into the car mostly, kids, rude dogs and owners and need to plan walks to make sure they are in open spaces. My boy is a super whizz at agility but I'll never be able to do a show with him because it'll just be too stressful for the boy. Any form of stress sets him back massively and the training starts all over again!

On a positive note, the past couple of weeks he has coped really well with two off lead dogs approaching him.

chelle that sounds really positive.
I have been avoiding the potentially reactive situations (or trying to!)
I am a little hopeful because my collie seems to recognise those people/dogs she has seen before and if they didn't cause a problem last time then she will accept them better this time.
The downside is that she always remembers those dogs who were too close/told her off etc
I am also trying to train myself to not react ....she definitely picks up signals from me.

"Keeping a potentially dangerous dog alive is completely irresponsible. I just can't understand why people do it. It's crap for the people, crap for the dog and a disaster waiting to happen."

If someone is unable or just doesn't want to manage and live with a dog that has a behavioural issue that could be dangerous - then absolutely having them PTS is the best option IMO.

But, it isn't irresponsible or a disaster waiting to happen if the owner is capable and willing to manage and work with the dog.

Using mine as an example, apart from 5 - 10 minutes of the day, he's a happy, well behaved and much loved dog.

It's been 2 years and 4 months since he first showed aggressive behaviour...he has never bitten a person or a dog and in fact has never come close to it after the first two weeks of him showing that behaviour, because I muzzle trained him and control his interactions.

I would never willingly have taken on a dog with the issues he has, but, by the time they developed...he was my dog and aside from me having a responsibility to do right by him, he's my dog, I love him.

I constantly assess whether his quality of life is ok, and whether I'm still ok with owning him because when either of those is no longer true, he'll be PTS.

I think if I had a dog that reacted badly to other people and other dogs, the best option might be to walk her far away from others - so an isolated track somewhere, a large playing field where she wouldn't be likely to meet anyone else.

I don't think I could cope with it in your situation, if I had to walk her around other people and dogs.

Life must be very difficult for you. I don't think I would keep a dog who behaved like that, because it would feel masochistic.

I hope you find a solution to this.

Thank you everyone. She already wears yellow!

I am aware of the option to Pts and will make that decision where appropriate. I have lots of dog experience and don't feel at that point yet, but I assure everyone that if I got to that point I would do the responsible thing

"Admittedly, none of this works when there are rude owners and dogs."

What does this mean?

Means exactly that. An owner can manage a reactive dog but can't stop Joe Bloggs allowing his bouncy rude off lead dog bound over to say hello because he is 'friendly', thus setting back the reactive dog's training by weeks or months.

If you have a reactive dog, training works in the same way as any training...

You practice a behaviour at home (watch me or similar) then outside alone, then far away from distractions, with the ultimate aim of being at some point being able to have the dog focus on you while passing what it reacts to.

If you're out in the real world at the working under threshold distance part, so somewhere quietish and you can avoid actually meeting other dogs up close, a socially inept dog bounding over to say hello can ruin weeks of work.

This is what happens to mine. She can be doing very well at passing people or dogs and then will have a moment where someone let their dog jump on her or tries to approach her and she is back to square one.
She is literally terrified when this happens and will shake/wee herself/anal glands/yelp if a dog comes close enough to touch her and so is defensive from a distance to avoid this. It's such a shame as its so frustrating as she is lovely other than this.

I agree I would never take on an aggressive dog but I have had her from a tiny puppy and I wouldn't rehome her now. She is my dog and has issues that I am trying to deal with the best I can

I have 2 GSD. One does not like strangers, particularly men or people with hoods, which is a nightmare in winter with most people wearing big dark jackets. She is OKish with other dog's, it depends on the approach. I will never let her off lead where there is other dogs or people so I tend to go to the same field where I can keep a eye on the gate.

I got both my dog's from the same breeder and one is the almost perfect GSD and the other stresses me out to the max. She goes into kennels once a year and is OK in there but she is walked off lead so the kennel staff are not trying to touch her. Going to the vets is a total nightmare, it took me and 2 members of staff to hold her still to get vaccinations and I felt like I had just gone 10 rounds with Mike Tyson

My dog is 7 now and I have 4 DC's, 2 arrived after I got the dog's and both dog's are perfect around them.

I always say now if I was to get another dog I would never get a puppy again, I'd go to the dog shelter so I can see the way the dog reacts to things.

Just a few things that have been mentioned on this thread..

APDT are not behaviourists they are dog trainers so most of them would not be up for reactive cases. They will have general ideas eg counter conditioning (which alone will not help a reactive dog) but not the qualifications to apply these to specific cases or work out a plan for behaviour modification. Training will change a behaviour. Behaviour modification will change an emotion (and is always required in reactivity cases).

All behaviour modification programmes should be looking at the whole dogs life, not just the reactivity. A major part of the program will be teaching and rewarding the dog for calm behavior throughout the day not just in the trigger situation. It will be looking at dealing with looking at arousal and impulse control, what brings down the arousal in your specific dog. It will looking at giving dogs the tools to become confident in all situations.

Many trainers just work on the reactivity and do not change the behaviour and emotional response of the dog so the behaviour does not change

My lovely baby boy turns into a monster when faced with other dogs ( used to be people as well but we have finally turned the corner there). I won't lie and say that it's easy, so many people have told to rehome him and give up but I never will. He is so utterly loveable and the gentlest dog in the world once he trusts you. I walk him muzzled because of the number of times an off lead dog has run over or a small child has run up to him. Someone actually commented the other day saying how rare it was to see a muzzled dog these days but that it was for his own protection as well as ours. The amount of people who still allow their dogs to run over is insane though and then tut or glare when the barking starts... I used to get upset now I either just walk away or make a point of loudly calming my boy down.

Cheerful I wish you were near me as I can't seem to find anyone who has a clue

See your - it's ok he's friendly owners...

Do you ever feel like shouting back- that's great, but it's because of fuckwits like you that mine isn't?

I don't, obviously, but it's crossed my mind before.

So my dog has to be perfectly behaved at all times because your's isn't?

Right.

No, you or your dog should have the common sense to prevent it running over to 'play' with an on lead dog who is giving off every signal they have that they don't want to.

My dog wears a really obvious muzzle, I'm actively avoiding dogs, I call over that he doesn't like dogs.

So by default he only meets the dogs with no social skills belonging to owners with no common sense.

Dogs with social skills look at him and go, nope, he doesn't want to play and take a wide berth and half decent owners call their dog over towards them.

It's got nothing to do with a reactive dog being less than perfectly behaved. Reactive dogs are normally scared dogs. Owners are trying to work on changing the dog's emotions towards what they find scary. It is a long process. You can't just train a dog to not be scared.

If you were arachnaphobic and I repeatedly threw spiders at you it would make your fear worse not better.

'He only wants to play' dogs repeatedly charging at a reactive dog makes issues worse.

Having your dog under control isn't just polite, it's the law.

Do you ever feel like shouting back - that's great, but its because of fuckwits like you mine isn't

YES.

If only all dog owners realised they shouldn't let their dogs gallop over to others before checking it's ok.

It's very easy to read people's body language if they have an aggressive dog and to keep a distance; and if the dog is on a lead there is no excuse for letting your dog run up to it. Really bad dog etiquette.

Our young dog isn't aggressive at all, but she is rather timid around other dogs. She's a JRT/staffy cross but looks to the casual observer, like a full staffy just a small one. So people think it's funny that a muscle-bound staffy is cowering behind her mum because a toy poodle puppy just looked at her funny...

She was well socialised, went to puppy training classes, etc... But still is much happier around people than dogs. And I can see if she felt cornered, she could become aggressive. She really hates it when people have more than one dog and they're off-lead. We live in the middle of nowhere, which doesn't help as she doesn't meet many dogs when out unless we go to the woods and she is on edge there, waiting for the next encounter...