Terriers?

[Ardha]

We have been thinking about getting a dog, OH would love a Staffie like he used to have but thinks that would be too big & strong for me to handle, and I agree, I was a little scared of his old dog.

I grew up with Shelties but haven't had my own dog as an adult.

Terriers seem to be the right size but I wondered what other peopl's experience was.

Our children are 10 & 12 so not small although the youngest is a little timid around larger dogs or dogs that jump up.

Please offer advice or experience.

Thanks.

First generation crosses are only more unlikely to have hip dysplasia if one of the crosses is relatively free from it, a labradoodle for example contains two breeds with high average hip scores, so you're not reducing the likelihood without hip scoring the breeding stock.

Hip dysplasia sorry.

Um, except quite a few of the most common crosses share inherited diseases in both breeds meaning that a cross from untested parents is just as likely to have one as a pedigree from untested parents.
I agree with that, Tabula. I was trying to avid writing an essay
And likewise about full-on working line terriers as pets. Ours had barn-ratter parents who were also good house dogs. The parents were not full-on field-bred JRTs: I wouldn't have felt up to dealing with one of those. You do need to check out the puppy's background, and see both parents if at all possible.

Sorry but you are quite wrong.
About what, exactly, Boo?
Some traits have been bred in for the wrong reasons and then, fairly successfully, bred out
I wish. Some traits which are unpleasant for the dog have been bred for on purpose (extremely squashed faces, for example, which can make it hard for the dog to breathe; excessive skin folds in some mastiffs; long and very vulnerable backs in Dachshunds); some have become widespread within small gene pools (heart problems in Cavaliers, e.g.)
The claim that cross breeds have longer and healthier lives requires quite a bit of backing. How did you arrive at this conclusion?
Research (and, in any case, basic knowledge of genetics would indicate that a dog which is inbred is likely to be less healthy than one that is not).
This link should take you to a long, detailed article about dog genetics and disease.
In addition, my understanding is that mixed-breed or cross-bred dogs are cheaper to insure.

Apologies again to OP for hijack of thread...

Avid? Avoid

My sil has a Patterdale and it's the most annoying dog I've ever met and mine's pretty irritating no idea if that's typical for Patterdales though as it's the only one I know!

West Highland white terriers are very easy. I love borders and will always have one but mine will snarl at other dogs if they growl first! He was the bitiest puppy known to man. I adore him.

Whippets are lovely too.

We have a Patterdale and she is really full on - she is a ratter on the farm and has pretty much free rein to burn off huge amounts of energy - I dread to think what she would be like in a household which didn't have the space or time to let her run

She can be very territorial and tends to get in there first and attack then ask questions with other dogs - she comes out running with me across the fields where I know we won't meet other dogs.

My friend has her litter brother and I can honestly say he is a nightmare - needs walking on the lead and is really unsafe round sheep and cats - no manners and no recall - combination of poor training and lack of exercise imo.

However mine is wonderful with the dc and quite happily shares the house with our cats now but it's been a long slow process.

We have had several farmer friends ask for a pup from her but I had her spayed as I didn't want to be responsible for breeding potentially nasty terriers.

A friend of mine has a small lurcher which is fantastic - goes out for a run twice a day and just sleeps the rest of the time - good with cats and fantastic with her DC - might be worth thinking about?

Schnauzers are great. Not terrier group in the uk but terrier-lite?

Lumella I was referring to the claims you made in the post directly above my reply.

The debate over whether cross or pure breeds are healthier is more complicated than your link suggests. Firstly, if the gene pool is small and diseases get easily established then the same small gene pool makes it easy to eliminate them as has been done successfully with hip dysplasia (which my auto correct keeps messing up). Secondly many breeds share the same lineage and you'd need to breed rather bizarre combinations to reliably get away from them. Thirdly, studies like the UC Davis study show that 13 out of 24 genetic disorders are shared between pure and cross breeds.

TheWhore hip dysplasia is argued to be a side effect of breeding for sloping backs so in that sense it was bred in. Degenerative myelopathy is common in boxers, corgis, cheasapeak bay retrievers, Rhodesian ridgebacks, wire fox terriers and common poodles as well as GSDs. And that is after relatively few years of testing and research. The reason you have not seen a lot of DM is that it is very difficult to diagnose specifically (costly and only diagnosed really by elimination) and the genetic test has only been available for a few years.

Sorry OP for the diversion of your thread, but some misconceptions should be challenged. I've lost a dog to DM, it's a horrific disease and the more information we have to avoid going through again that the better.

After we lost our labrador, I wanted a smaller dog , I researched breeds and Border Terriers ticked all the boxes for us, she is 8 months, brilliant with our children aged 7 and 11, and I had always had a soft spot for a Border. But she may be small in size but has a big personality, loves lots of walks but happy with one a day if that's all I can fit in, she is great with other dogs at the moment, we keep her well socialised, has a perfect recall to a whistle, has never chewed but she has her own box of toys and I leave her 3 mornings for 4 hours with no issues.
Good way to find more is to join a Face Book group,there's a few for Borders and I'm sure there will be for other breeds, that way you get to see loads of dogs in their home environment and find out more about them. Good luck with whatever you choose.

Boo, I'm really sorry you lost your dog to DM. It sounds terrible, and I can see why genetic disease in dogs would bother you. I think we can agree that dogs would be better off without that disease load: what we disagree on is how to get away from it.

Firstly, if the gene pool is small and diseases get easily established then the same small gene pool makes it easy to eliminate them as has been done successfully with hip dysplasia
Hip dysplasia has been eliminated? In what breed? Please link: I'm genuinely interested as my SIL's lab has bad hips (which is why she was not bred, which is good). My understanding is that it has been reduced, but that it's a problem with a complex heredity, making it quite difficult to breed away from. Breeding away from kidney disease in Dalmatians required outcrossing - which was fought tooth and nail by the breed clubs.

A small gene pool will predispose to genetic disease, because any recessive genetic screw-up is more likely to rise to the surface, since most of the dogs will be related, some very closely. Cavaliers have an estimated effective population size of 111 dogs (the KC's own number). Over half of Cavaliers have mitral valve disease. With a gene pool that small, you're going to find it hard to breed away successfully from that, without breeding towards the other great Cav plague, syringomyelia.

Secondly many breeds share the same lineage and you'd need to breed rather bizarre combinations to reliably get away from them.
But many don't. GSPxVizsla gets you away from vizsla myositis, for example.

Thirdly, studies like the UC Davis study show that 13 out of 24 genetic disorders are shared between pure and cross breeds.
I think that proves my point, rather than yours: that crossbreeds only have just over half of the number of genetic diseases that purebreeds do.

Apologies again to the OP.

I agree with what pretty much everyone has said about Patterdales- ours was a bit mad, fiercely loyal and preferred humans to others dogs or animals. She never nipped or even growled, but I know people with them that have had problems with nipping. Having had a Staffie as well many years ago, there is definitely a huge difference. Our Staffie was just pure muscle, and was unbelievably strong. The Patterdale was chunky and quite strong for a little dog, but we could still scoop her up and felt like we had control. Staffies are lovely dogs, but I see where you are coming from as they are so energetic and strong.

We have a terrier cross now and he is a little snarky if you touch him accidentally when he's sleeping, so I wouldn't trust him 100% with little children. I love terriers to bits, but I always associate them with being a bit nippy. Of course a lot is to do with how you bring them up. All terriers I know are a bit mad and are really excited to see everyone, so you might want to consider if thats too much for your kids.

How about a pug (great characters) or a schnauzer?

I have a staffy/jrt cross - she just looks like a small-ish staffy. And has all the characteristic of the staffy with the JRT yappiness thrown in. When I tell some people what she is they wish me luck.... But have had a lifetime of terriers, and wouldn't have anything else. They are headstrong but also full of character. Someone I know has a cocker spaniel and frankly it might as well be a hamster for all the character it has... Ditto another friend's labrador.

I like to think of our dog as 'double terrier'.

The holes in my flower bed are testament to the double terrier, too. Not a dog for the faint hearted.

Having never had a terrier before we got a westie six months ago. We got him from a rescue at 4 months and he's brilliant. Perfect combo of cheeky, curious character and cuddle factor. It's taken a while but he's great with kids and not too yappy now. Main challenges are keeping him white and stopping the digging!