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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Family pet having a litter - is it a bad idea?

41 replies

pebbletime · 21/10/2015 16:03

We have a family pet dog (bitch) who has not been spayed (we got her at the beginning of this year).

We wanted to get her a companion dog (she has separation anxiety).

My ds has asked if she could have a litter, and we could keep one of the puppies. (we have had enquiries for 3 others, if she ever has them)

I am very sleep addled today, so sorry if this is stonkingly obviously a stupid Qu.

Is this a Bad Idea? (she is just 6 btw, is this too old anyway?)

OP posts:
JoffreyBaratheon · 22/10/2015 15:47

In the 1960s, when a lot of dogs were un-neutered and before there was much education about it; our family pet got out when she was in season and the inevitable happened. Her first litter. Like you, my parents were probably fondly imagining 3 or 4 pups. Guess how many?

  1. All live. She was not a dalmatian, btw!

Could you really rehome kindly fairly and ethically, 13 pups? No? You have your answer, then.

Also: "My dog has a problem. Shall I breed from my dog?"

I think the answer is clear there, too.

Nancery · 22/10/2015 15:48

In the nicest possible way, please don't! For all the reasons the others have given. There are countless puppies, and older dogs, for adoption if you want another dog.

pebbletime · 22/10/2015 16:09

Joffrey SA is a characteristic of the breed.
Not all dogs of this breed have it, but she does (probably exacerbated as a result of being kept in an unsuitable environment and then re-homed). I didnt think that would necessarily 'breed it on' but I am happy to stand corrected.

fairyfi
Yes, I would be willing to sleep with bitch (and pups) and give whatever care necessary.
The large vet bill would be tricky atm so I would need to wait until (if ever) that was not the case. Which would rule out my current ddog as she is already just turned 6.
The potential death of bitch and pups would not be a risk I would be willing to take with a family pet / my children being 8 and 11.
I would only want to breed from a dog if I knew I had good homes and could take them back if necessary like an established breeder.

Thank you for being kind about my decision to ask on here.
I knew I would expose myself to potential flaming.
I don't think that has happened and I appreciate the advice which has helped me make the correct decision. I know what I want to do, but I also know what I should/need to do and that is the one I will follow.

The decision was already made, upthread. Grin

Hopefully this thread may also be useful to another 'happy dreamer' in the future. It was a bit of an idle dream, so I hope I've not wasted anyones' time. I will be EXTRA sure to keep her away from male dogs for the next 3 weeks, in any case.

I shall post back when she's been spayed so you don't worry I've strayed from the right path Wink

(and, hopefully, when I've been able to take on a rescue companion for her)

OP posts:
fairyfi · 22/10/2015 16:22

Im glad you found my comments helpful rather than flaming, i do think its brave to pose these questions and risk a flaming, but its the responsible thing to do and you clearly are all about being responsible over this.

I missed that she is 6, which would put her outside of reasonable risks to the bitch in breeding from her (particularly for first litter). Optimum breed age for first litter being 2-3 (providing all other boxes ticked).

Yes, its hopefully a good insight into whats involved for anyone else thinking about it.

Having an 8 and an 11 yr old would mean you would have helpers too! but how long they would be willing who can say Wink.

yes... keep her tightly locked in, its extremely stressful for the boys with a bitch in heat around (whether castrated or no), and you wouldn't be able to separate a bitch and [strange] dog that wanted to get it on! Grin

yes, i respect that you had already made your decision too its very wise given her age and the greater risks involved in losing her/pups. At her age would be better now for her health to have her spayed a good time after the four week season is over to ensure all engorged blood vessels and uterus have shrunk back and that no phantom pregnancy involving further engorgement of mammaries before operation undertaken (which involves complications).

pebbletime · 22/10/2015 16:42

fairyfi - thank you for the further advice re reasons for timing of Spaying.

I am now nervous about getting her safely though the season.

We had one with her shortly after we got her and were able to walk her around the village on lead without difficulty.

Our outside area has become insecure and we cant get it re-fenced for a couple of weeks so she will HAVE to go out on lead. I will be EXTREMELY careful to avoid other dogs, however!

OP posts:
Shriek · 22/10/2015 16:58

ARe you able to take her out in the car to somewhere like a boring industrial estate to lead walk her? The last thing you want is to be fighting off an amorous big strange dog!

... and from days 10-18 just keep her in! she will have to go without walks whilst she is 'open' and definitely not in any water.

Mine stay in and we have other bitches over to play during this time or we visit others for play dates Grin. Its very possible and easy to keep them away from the boys with a little planning.

fairyfi · 22/10/2015 17:09

what Shriek says Smile is what i would say, with a note to not worry if you take those steps as you will have it all coverd without risk to anyone.

Sorry to have worried, but its worth a little worry perhaps to avoid more 'little worries' coming along! Wink

pebbletime · 22/10/2015 17:19

Hi. I am in deep countryside so no ind ests and LOADS of other dogs.
I can put her in the car yes, but only to go to other similar areas so prob no point. I am certainly willing to walk her at 6am and 12midnight to lessen the chances though and was really careful last time.

She doesn't like water so that's ok.
She also prefers to be snoozing for much of the time, so that helps that she really doesn't care about even short walks.

I have ordered her some pants too which fit inside a leatherette 'big girls pants harness' type thing. Hopefully that will be a belt and braces too.

OP posts:
Shriek · 22/10/2015 17:44
Grin

yes the very early mornings and late nights, i guess you will know where the dog walkers go to regularly walk and those less populated.

Nancery · 23/10/2015 10:39

Pebbletime you sound like a lovely owner! X

MrsDeVere · 23/10/2015 10:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

banff82 · 23/10/2015 11:04

I am a vet, and I would also say your vet is misguided! Six is far too old for a dog to have a first litter, you would be putting her at serious risk of complications. Also, if she is herself a rescue dog, that is another no-no in terms of breeding. Everyone thinks their own dog is wonderful, but the only way of knowing if a dog really is an outstanding example of their breed is by having them judged objectively against others, by showing them to ensure they meet the breed standard for conformation and temperament, or working them in the capacity they are bred for. Behavioural issues like separation anxiety should also automatically rule a dog out for breeding as this is not sound temperament.

Breeding dogs, when done responsibly - and it shouldn't be done any other way - is not for the faint hearted. It is expensive, incredibly time consuming and potentially life threatening for the bitch. Puppies often die, sometimes after you've nursed them day and night for weeks, it is not easy. Emergency C-sections, which are not at all uncommon, cost in excess of £1000 - more if they are in the middle of the night, which is when most dogs give birth! - and are not covered by pet insurance. You are also responsible for the pups for their entire lives - would you be able to take 1 or 2 or 3 of them back 6, 12, 18 months, or 3 or 4 years down the line? Or would they end up in rescues as so many other thousands of dogs do every year.

You also have the cost of health testing before you breed the bitch - most breeds need a clinical eye test and hip scoring as a bare minimum, and most breeds also have DNA tests for specific conditions. Your local vet telling you your dog is healthy is not enough, there are a huge number of serious genetic conditions in various dog breeds, and the only way of knowing if your dog carries them and could pass them on to offspring is to have them tested.

If I had a £1 for every time I've had someone come in to the surgery with puppies they can't find homes for and tell me 'but I had 10 people say they wanted one before they were born!' I would be able to retire aged 33. The idea of getting a puppy often seems great to people, but when confronted with the reality a few months later, they change their minds!

If you are going to spay her - which I would recommend - then as others have said, 3 months from the last season is the ideal time. It's really good that you've asked the question though, you're obviously a good and caring dog owner.

Oxfordblue · 23/10/2015 13:18

I think the next sentence out of your vets mouth might be that he can recommend a stud dog.

Don't do it, she's too old & as everyone is saying, too many dogs getting put down everyday etc etc

JoffreyBaratheon · 23/10/2015 22:25

So separation anxiety "is a characteristic of the breed" - but it's not genetic? Not sure that's entirely logical.

pebbletime · 23/10/2015 22:48

Yes, a characteristic. Not all of that breed have it.
But mine does, atm. Probably because she was kept in an unsuitable environment and then changed homes.
Or perhaps its genetic for her. Who knows?

I did say, very many posts ago now, that I was not going to breed from her and I was going to get her spayed.

I met a behaviouralist today by chance, walking up to collect the kids from school. She zoomed across the road, said: 'oh I adore this breed' and made a beeline for ddog. I said my usual: 'she's not vicious but she is barky' and the woman was amazing with her. No barking or shying away / hiding at all. She then told me her job and gave me her number. Happy Days Smile

OP posts:
CheerfulYank · 24/10/2015 20:42

I think it's a bad idea given her age.

Joffrey that happened to one of my childhood dogs too! She had 11, all of whom lived. She was a scatterbrained dog and we worried but she was an amazingly attentive mother. Aw, she's been dead 20 years but I'm getting a tear thinking of old Lucy. :) We found homes for them all easily but they were three quarters lab (looked full) and lots of people in our area hunted.

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