Recall with other dogs

[lougle]

Trigger is a rescue GSDX who is utterly fabulous. However, he loves other dogs and any sense of recall goes out the window when he sees one.

Today, DH took him for a walk with my parents and their rescue. Met lots of dogs, all fine. But then one dog he met got spooked and 'nipped' him and he retaliated. No harm done by either side, but the owner hit Trigger with a walking stick several times.

We took him to a good (I think) trainer for a session a few weeks ago, but while the advice was helpful for general bonding, which I understand is essential for obedience, we weren't any the wiser how to promote recall. Also, they have a 'companionship' class but we really need the basics (loose lead and recall) rather than cute tricks.

He is never especially bothered by treats. He will take them or leave them and certainly wouldn't give up an interesting dog for a treat. He gives a 'yeah, I'll get a treat later, but there's that really lovely looking dog over there....' look before he barrels off.

I know the other dog 'started it' and man was wrong to hit Trigger, but the dog wouldn't have nipped him if he hadn't rushed over and invaded his space!

Any advice gratefully received.

You need to keep him on a longline until his recall is good enough for him to be off lead , your DH must have been fairly far away from him if the other owner had time to hit him several times .

I agree about the long line and keep at it over and over again. Also, some on lead training to ignore other dogs may help.

We don't live in the UK, but to be honest I would be furious if a strange dog came barreling up to me and my dogs, as you have found, some dogs just won't tolerate it, mine wouldn't - they would kill him.

At the end of the day if your dogs recall can't be trusted you need to keep him on the lead. Letting him barrel up to other dogs could traumatize them (especially if they're elderly, just had an operation, are a rescue etc) and that's not fair at all.

Also, if your dog went charging up to another dog, which then nipped, the other dog didn't start it, your's did.

I think I acknowledged in my OP that I considered it my dog's fault for running up to their dog

Sorry, its still early morning here, I saw the "I know the other dog 'started it'" bit and must have skipped over the other part.

If it helps all three of my dogs aren't at all food motivated but all have perfect recall, it is just a case of finding their incentive (be it a squeaky ball, lots of cuddles) and then doing it time and time again.

Thanks. He's really motivated by things thrown into water. Not so much thrown onto grass.

He is just fascinated by other dogs, but of course, they don't know that. They (some of them) just see a huge dog running towards them.

We'll have to go back to basics.

How old is he? Is he an adolescent?
You also need to keep socialising him, especially with confident dogs who can put him in his place.
Him bowling up to dogs isn't just a recall fail. He is also not reading the body language of other dogs. Long before it nipped, the other dog will have been giving him body language cues to say 'back off', which your dog has ignored, hence the other dog having to resort to the extremes of a nip.

Most dogs will learn dog manners as a pup, but if he was under socialised then, you need to help him catch up now. I would try and find a trainer with an older (not elderly!) dog who is confident and a bit alpha. They will help him learn when dogs want to play and when they want him to back off and leave them alone.
Until then, you need to keep him on a long line, and do some research yourself into dog body language, so you can see when he is bothering other dogs and making them uncomfortable. Learning when to take your dog out of a situation that you can see is tense will be doing both dogs a favour.

Is there anything else that could become an extra special reward for him? Anything new that could be saved solely for recall purposes?

As I said before, we're not in the UK, but I've trained my dogs to sit down by my feet when (on the rare occasion I walk them off our own land) we see other people. We have two caucasian ovcharkas and a fila brasiliero, they can be very intimidating even when they're just poking about on our ranch.

Yes, he's probably about a year old. he does get body language, but he tends to back away then reapproch when dogs are unsure. He's still quite puppy like in that sense and looks so, too, because he has floppy ears and looks a bit daft. In general, he would back down rather than fight.

He loves his duck, but will still ignore it if there is something more interesting. He loves toys thrown into water.

My gsd had fairly unreliable recall, I did lots of work using a long line, recalling with high value treats (chicken, sausage etc) and the use of a clicker, I did this a lot and made most of his walk about recall until it sunk in that coming back was the better option. Also he can be reactive to other dogs if they are over excitable, loud or dominant (he is a nervous nelly) so I tend not to let him greet others until he is calm and the other dog seems approachable. Long line is the best thing I've invested in as it allows him room but also me control if necessary if he seems a bit flighty :) hope this helps !

rather than cute tricks this would help with the recall. Your dog would be more interested in you and less likely to need to go to other dogs to be entertained. I would not instantly dismiss the companion dog class.

I can see that may have come across badly. I love tricks. He loves giving me his paw, then the other paw, his nose, etc. I think I meant that I'd prefer to get proper support in basic things like recall and loose lead walking rather than tricks, initially.

You don't come across badly :) it took me a while to realise the importance of getting a dog to absolutely love you enough to choose you over other dogs - basic training and playing is a big part of this and I still have a dog who will choose rubbish bins over me every time
A longline for a while could be a good idea. Also lead walking where there are other dogs and a lot of praise and rewards for passing other dogs nicely, or a 'sit,look, wait' while another dog walks past.
Higher value treats can help - roast liver/ salami/ smoked cheese/ cocktail sausages, basically the smellier the better..

Anything that you can teach your dog to do, be it tricks or recall, is another small degree of control over your dog and will strengthen the bond between you. You can build up from there. Don't be disheartened.

Thanks I know he's an awesome boy and I suppose I might retaliate if I head tried to be friendly then got nipped.... I just need to keep working on that bond and gradually improve his recall. It feels like he's been with us forever, but it's only been 5 months.

It is tough, I think, especially with rescue dogs. I'm extremely protective of our three, which is ridiculous as they are very capable of defending themselves. He is still very young, ddog3 is now thirteen months old and her recall is perfect, but we have the space and optimum conditions to train her, plus she has our other two dogs to watch and learn from which makes it easier. It is actually very helpful having an older dog to teach manners.
It isn't bad to teach tricks at all any time spent with your dog is beneficial, you're still teaching jphim to listen to you. I don't teach tricks as such, but I teach other things (like schutzhund) and out dogs are guard dogs/personal protection dogs as well as pets. Actually, if you have a schutzhund club near you that may be worth a look, they usually teach pet dog obedience too and usually have a lot of experience with GSDs, their trainers are often police dog trainers. Do your research as not all clubs are reputable, but it can be great fun. Ddog3 adores the tracking.

WE had one to one with a trainer for recall and she advised basically giving all food by hand so you become the most important thing in his life and he wants to be with you. Using long line too. Have to say that I found the all food by hand thing a bit much for us and didn't keep it up but can see how it would work. ddog's recall has improved a lot though (with the aid of a lot of chicken!) - I was utterly amazed when dd recalled him while he was running towards another dog on the beach last week. He instantly turned round, ran to her and sat down for a treat.

That's really encouraging. Thank you all.

OP I feel your pain! My dog is totally dog focussed, and not treat or toy motivated either. It helps to try really hard to find a treat that he can be excited about. I have to rotate my dogs treats. At the moments, canned mackerel, or raw tripe (!) wrapped in foil of course, have some effect. So, get Pippa Mattinsons 'total recall' book, set up a programme of conditioning. Start off no distraction, use whistle every time you feed him, then call him when in same room, then different rooms etc. you build up v gradually. But, use a treat he's never had before, wet smelly meat, not some dried boring stuff. Get him to focus on you too. Teach him'watch' command. When you're out on lead, keep him at a out of threshold distance from other dogs, ie at a distance where he can see dog, but not go crazy. As soon as he sees it, click him ( clicker training is v effective) and treat. But he must be out of reaction range or you are rewarding the bad behaviour. The idea is, if you click and treat when he sees a dog, he will start to look at you when he sees a dog. 'When pigs might fly' is a good book for 'impossible to train' dogs. My dogs recall training has been interrupted due to 3 ops, but I'd got to the stage where if he disappeared down the (v long) garden to bark at squirrels or other dogs, 5 blasts on the whistle would have him tearing back like a cannonball. Off lead out, it would work if the other dog was beyond threshold. Not yet got to recall once he's in mid flight to a doggy friend! Long lines are great for practising, but take care, our dog has created havoc around ankles, so either remove when playing, or wind up so he's effectively on lead.