Buying a dog-aggressive Staffy?

[SaucyJack]

Will it go horribly wrong?

A friend of ours is trying to sell his dog as it doesn't get on with other dogs or animals and we're considering buying him.

He's a lovely, lovely, lovely boy otherwise. Very soft, and happy with adults and children- inc. our three children.

He isn't neutered (was intended as a breeding dog) which we'd obviously do, and is two years old.

Any advice? Is this the worst idea ever?

And if your prepared to pay fir a dog why wouldn't you go to a breeder who can garuntee you (of they are a good one) that the dog is healthy vaccinated and comes from a good line of digs

far more sensible than investing hundreds correcting problems and still not able to have a normal life with the dog.

madness.

I was going to try and ignore this thread, but I will say that our friend wants less than half than our local Dog's Trust charges in expenses.

My nearest neighbour has a dog aggressive Old English Sheepdog.

I would be happy for my DC to sleep in its basket with him, but I would not let it within a hundred feet of my dog!

My neighbour's life utterly revolves around it. She can only walk it off lead at 5am, otherwise he has to be muzzled.

He can't go to the groomers, the vets or kennels (she has to pay for them all to come to her).

But with dogs trust your getting a dog that's been neutered, vet checked, microchipped and had a temperament test.

Why do they want any money at all when you are doing them a favour?

You aren't doing anything wrong - it is clear that you want to help.

However people are giving you advice based on their experience that having a dog with behaviour problems can be very restrictive to a point that it makes your life very difficult and very hard work.

Any dog is a major undertaking. A dog aggressive dog will more than likely restrict your ability to go on holiday, visit friends - do any activity that takes longer than a few hours.

Your replies haven't explained your previous experiences with dogs or given much information about this dog. How do you expect people to reply - that it will probably be fine?

But your still paying him to do him a favour and potentially costing yourselves more on top covering what he didn't pay for in the first place.

SaucyJack - the point is by giving the dog a home, you're doing them a favour...it's not like you were approaching them wanting a dog, they've got a problem and you're willing to give the dog a good home.

It would definitely make me think that they haven't necessarily got the dog's best interests in mind.

Re the walk, the fact that he wasn't that bad even if it was down to novelty value is IMO good news, but, I'd still be cautious about what he's like if dogs approach him and whether he's still manageable then.

Look, I understand that you think him selling the dog suggests he hasn't got the dog's best interests in my mind. You possibly have a point.

But that doesn't actually matter to me. He isn't giving him away for free. End of- and the fact he wants money for the dog has absolutely no bearing on us considering whether taking the dog on will be a positive thing for our family.

You are taking on a dog you know to be difficult from a non-reputable source.

Without knowing your previous experience with dogs it's really difficult to understand why you would put yourself through that.

In your OP you actually said "any advice?"- but don't seem prepared to take any!

Forgot to add - also a breed whose reputation will make encounters with other dogs even more fraught and whose strength will make him difficult to control if he does become aggressive.

I've never owned a dog as an adult Merry, and no- we're not at all sure that this is the right place to start.

We just really like this particular dog.

We haven't made any decisions at all. Possibly having him for the weekend as a trial.

Bertrand- I've read all the advice. Nothing in the MN talk guidelines says I'm legally obliged to follow it.

And you are prepared to take the risk that you will not be able to leave the house for any longer than you can leave the dog for the rest of its
life?

I think the recommended maximum time to leave a dog alone is about 4 hours.

And you will also feel able to take the decision to put him to sleep if things don't work out and he can't be rehomed?

if you really really like the dog and you really really think you want a lifetime of walking dog on a lead in a muzzle... then go for it.

But as a responsible new dog owner you must make sure he is vaccinated, chipped and neutered. This is the current owner's responsibility before you buy. if he hasn't done this he is ripping you off

You say the dog will cost less than half the donation the Dogs Trust charge? Have you factored in neutering and vaccination costs? (Neutering is 200 quid odd, vacs perhaps 30 quid). All Dogs Trust dogs are done. You will immediately be forking out for this if not.

So, tell your 'friend' you would happily rehome his dog and pay his fee provided he shows you the vac, chip and neutering certs. if he can't then ... you have more money than sense

What is it about the dog that you like?
Soppy personality, sweet natured, that sort of thing?

Because that is common to 95% of staffies, so it really won't be hard for you to find one you like who is going to be suitable as a first-time dog. I'm sorry, but EVERYTHING you've said about the dog, but more importantly everything you've said about your attitude and approach to this whole thing is screaming red flags.

Please also bear in mind that you are going to have to tell the insurance company that the dog is known to be dog aggressive, and they will probably either refuse to insure you or refuse to liability cover if the dog attacks another dog. So if for any reason the dog escapes from the garden, or you drop the lead, or you encounter another dog while he is on the lead, and your dog causes any damage, you could be looking at £10k+ in vets bills for the damage.

If you've never had a dog as an adult, a dog-aggressive one is not the place to start.

You will have to walk the dog every day, and if the dog is aggressive you will have to be on your toes the whole time, even if it is leashed and muzzled: dogs have an amazing ability to rip the lead through your fingers.

It sounds as if this dog needs an experienced owner. I've had dogs for years and I wouldn't feel able to take on one like this.

Before you get a dog, you should first be asking yourself some questions. Why do you want a dog? Where are you going to walk it? How are you going to deal with housetraining issues, chewing, anxiety... should they arise? Have you got a secure garden? What is about this specific breed that you like? How are you going to deal with behavioural issues should they arise? What is so special about this particular dog who has been left entire for breeding purposes? Has he won shows? Is he a particularly good example of his breed? Has he already been used as a stud dog? Why do you want a dog with known problems? How are you going to deal with the aggression? Other people have written their experiences of dealing with dog agressive dogs. How do you think it will be for you? Do you think neutering will make a difference? If it does, what do you think it will change? What if it gets worse? What training do you plan to do with the dog? What classes/trainers are available? Do you have a local vet? Why are your friends getting rid of this dog? Why have they left issues for 2 years? What if you can't cope?

For a first dog in your adult life, you would be much better getting proper advice about what dog would suit you and your family. Rehoming centres are usually very careful about rehoming as they really don't want the animal coming back. What support will you have?

If you've never had a dog as an adult, a dog-aggressive one is not the place to start.

Absolutely agree with this. And I know because I've done it.

Even now, four other dogs and a lot of learning down the line, I wouldn't knowingly take on a DA dog. Even when it's mild it's very limiting. If it's severe it's a complete nightmare.

We had DDog1 for eleven years. For five of those years we tried, with the help of numerous behaviourists and trainers, to "fix" him. After that we realised that he was never going to improve and it was going to be a case of managing him. In his case (his aggression was fear based and very severe) that meant no longer walking him as it was just too much for him to cope with. We were lucky in that he adjusted to life like that very well, had he not our only option then would have been PTS.

He was very, very happy as a house dog but that left us with a dog that couldn't be kennelled, or home boarded. We had the odd self catering holiday but cottages had to be chosen by their proximity to other properties in case there were other dogs nearby.

Trips to the vet (of which there were many as he developed a heart condition and arthritis in later life) were like military operations.

He too was fabulous with people, he really was, and we loved him dearly but it was always disappointing that we couldn't take him out anywhere. Always a strain knowing that we couldn't do this, that or the other because literally everything had to fit round him.

He was an extreme case but it's not difficult for an already DA dog to get worse.

From experience, taking on a dog that is known to be DA as your first dog with no back up or support is utter madness.

Saucy walk away from this dog before your heart gets anymore invested in it. There are plenty of dogs that you would also love which need rescued that do not have these issues. These dogs could be the real positive thing you are looking for.

My first dog as an adult was a dog-aggressive/fearful rescue collie. I loved him, he loved me but it was a stressful experience. When I got him I envisaged nice walks and socialising with other dog-walkers while our dogs played together.

Instead I had lots of solitary walking in large rough fields all the while scanning the horizon for other dogs and having huge adrenaline rushes when I saw one and had to rush to get my dog back on a lead, and hope the other dog didn't approach. Inevitably they did and there were lots of skirmishes. I put him to sleep after 3 years because he also took a chunk out of a visiting relatives face, all because my relative smelled strongly of his new puppy and my dog had an anxiety attack.

I have two easygoing rescue dogs now and walking them is a pleasure.

You can change this dog's behaviour, but it will take work and time and he may never be fully reliable. He's probably not what you want if you foresee nice family days out to the park/beach/picnic with your Dc and your dog.

122 messages on, OP, and still nobody thinks you should take on this dog.......

Whilst I don't necessarily think that getting this dog is an awful idea, you really do need to think about the practicalities.

My dog is a rescue lurcher. He barks at other dogs when on lead but rushes over to play with them when off lead. After he killed a cat last year (long thread about it on here) I have to be very careful about how and where I walk him. He can only go off lead in empty fields and he has limited lurcher recall.

Imagine if you and your dog entered a field that we were already in. Your dog would be on lead. Mine would not be and would rocket over to yours to say hello. He can cover 100 metres faster than Usain Bolt. I cannot so ir wouls take me the best part of 60 seconds, longer if the grass is long, to get to him and you. How would you manage your angry dog during that time?

This is a situation I have to weigh up every time I let The Hound of the Schulenbergs off his lead. I know the fields, I know the entries and exits and I know where mine likes to go (sprints for a hedge). I still have to time our field walks for early mornings / late evenings and be constantly vigilant. It's tiring.

I manage street walks, where we do see other dogs, with even more vigilance and a big bag of treats. I have to look ahead all the time and basically stuff his face with good stuff as soon as he sees another dog. It works with him as his aggression is caused by fear but is divertible with food, but yours may not be so.

If I were you I'd ask for a trial with him and take him to a variety of places to see how he copes. I'd also look at working with a dog behaviourist to get some strategies to help. I wouldn't reject him out of hand but I would make sure I knew EXACTLY what his temperament was before making a decision.

Good luck .

This has to be a wind-up; surely no-one could be this stupid?

In what way is he dog aggressive Saucy? from your description of the walk he doesn't sound that reactive. If its a problem in the house it may be more resource-guarding than dog-dog aggression and the two things are quite different in terms of training, outcomes, etc