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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

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Original poster

Incomplete spay?

21 replies

Naturegirl82 · 27/03/2015 18:15

I'm wondering if any one can give me some advice.

We had our CKCS spayed in December 2013. All seemed to go well the vet didn't report any problems with the surgery. I've just taken her out for a walk and we had every dog in the park following her and trying to mount her. It was so bad that even when I picked her up dogs were jumping up at me to get to her. She clearly must have been giving some pheromone off as it wasn't just one dog. She hasn't shown any behavioural signs of being in heat but I'm wondering if this sounds like it might have been an incomplete spay?

We have had some dogs take an interest in her before but not to the extent of this evening. Dh has spoken to the vet previously about this and they basically told him it wasn't possible.

It was so bad tonight I had to come home. Everyone just assumed I was irresponsible and she was coming into season.

Does anyone have any experience or advice so that we can go back and speak to the vet a bit better informed. Is there anything that can be done?

OP posts:

Lilcamper · 27/03/2015 18:23

She needs to go back to the vet to check for other health issues that could be attracting them.

Original poster

Naturegirl82 · 27/03/2015 18:26

lilcamper what sort of health conditions? We have taken her to the vet all ready and explained and they didn't offer any solutions etc. It isn't all the time, there can be months between issues and she interacts fine with dogs in the interim.

OP posts:

Lonecatwithkitten · 27/03/2015 22:04

There are specific blood tests available to check for incomplete spay, also known as ovarian remanent syndrome.
I have had bitches have dogs mount them when they have a urinary tract infection and anal gland problems and once with a dog who had consumed a number of it's owners contraceptive pills.

Costacoffeeplease · 27/03/2015 22:11

We have had this in the past, when one of our male dogs has been v interested in our female who had been spayed and there were no signs of her being in season. I think there must be some leftover hormones sometimes, it passed in a day or two

Original poster

Naturegirl82 · 28/03/2015 06:26

Thanks for the ideas. I'm going to see if I can get a vet appointment for this morning as I assume anything will be easier to detect when the symptoms are being displayed.

No signs of anal gland problems (had those in the past so am very vigilant with spotting those signs) or of a uti but will keep those in mind when talking to the vet.

OP posts:

Original poster

Naturegirl82 · 28/03/2015 11:46

Taken her to the vets. He said either a uti or incomplete spay. But as she isn't showing any signs of a uti and the frequency of the attention she receives he thinks incomplete spay.

Means she is going to need an exploratory operation to see if they can see and remove any remaining ovarian tissue. I don't want to put her through an unnecessary operation but if there is tissue left it means she is still susceptible to mammary tumours. Luckily they will do it free of charge and the head vet is going to do it.

Thanks for all your advice.

OP posts:

Greenkit · 28/03/2015 15:37

Very positive news

kelpeed · 28/03/2015 22:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lonecatwithkitten · 28/03/2015 23:22

Nature you would not be unreasonable to ask for the blood test first to check whether she has ovarian tissue present or not prior to surgery.

piggychops · 28/03/2015 23:26

What lonecat said.

Original poster

Naturegirl82 · 29/03/2015 08:53

lonecat we have been offered the blood test but the problem is it has to be done at a very specific time. Ddog shows no signs of being in season so our only clue to when it would be needed is that she gets followed by dogs. We don't always walk in areas with other dogs so it is likely we would miss the opportunity. That's why we are probably going to opt for the surgery. The vet has given us all the info and it's up to us to decide so I am going to do a bit more research but think that will be the route we go down. No other cause of the issue seems likely and if the blood test was positive we would have the surgery anyway.

I'm also having to factor in that I walk with my 1 year old and have another baby on the way. I wouldn't have felt save having DD in the park with me on Friday with the way the dogs were acting.

OP posts:

SunshineAndShadows · 29/03/2015 08:57

Why not just have the blood test now if she was just followed by dogs yesterday? If she has ovarian tissue releasing hormones then it will be active

piggychops · 29/03/2015 09:25

The other thing which may be useful is to look at the cells of the vagina by taking a swab. These change under the influence of hormones so are different at different stages of a cycle.

Original poster

Naturegirl82 · 29/03/2015 11:02

I'm not sure of the exact timing of when the blood test needs to be done the vet didn't say. Internet suggests two weeks after, but after the start or end I'm not sure, and as we don't know when she starts and stops showing symptoms maybe this is why it will be difficult to pinpoint the time of the test needing to be done. But it looks like if the test is positive it's a clear indication but if it's negative it might just have been done at the wrong time.

piggy I've just come across the info for the vaginal swab. (It's helping me research so much better now I know it's called Ovarian remnant syndrome!). This is apparently more accurate than the blood test and I wonder if this can be done now.

It's one of those things that I didn't know which questions to ask when in the vets. I think I am going to phone them with some questions tomorrow and ask about the vaginal swab and see if we are still in the time limits for this.

Any further info and advice is greatly appreciated. We just want to get to the bottom of it and hopefully get it sorted.

OP posts:

Lonecatwithkitten · 29/03/2015 11:08

There are various blood tests the best are offered by idexx and are very accurate.

Original poster

Naturegirl82 · 29/03/2015 11:14

lonecat when does the blood have to be taken?

OP posts:

piggychops · 29/03/2015 22:24

The blood tests are stimulation tests. You have to give a hormone then take a blood sample later on. Depending on the symptoms, different hormones are given. As lonecat said Idexx are good. If you Google them and ovarian remnant, you should be able to find out more.
If your vet's not sure about checking vaginal cells, the smear can be sent to a laboratory for examination.

Lonecatwithkitten · 30/03/2015 11:05

As piggy chop has said stimulation test. I looked back at notes for the last case we dealt with advice from Idexx 75% of female dogs with this problem actually have a urinary tract infection so a urine sample should be sent for culture. The stimulation test can be done at any time and has 80% reliability.
In our last case the bitch did have a subclinical (no signs) urinary tract infection once successfully treated she had no further problems.

Original poster

Naturegirl82 · 30/03/2015 12:50

Thanks for the info piggychops and lonecat.

I've phoned and left some questions about testing for uti incase she has a subclinical infection, asked for more info about the blood test, and the possibility of a vaginal swab so hopefully they will get back to me today.

Your help is appreciated. Much easier to get the right info when I know what I should be asking.

OP posts:

Original poster

Naturegirl82 · 30/03/2015 13:49

lonecat what would you do if the uti test came back clear, there are no problems with anal glands, but the blood test simulation was negative (I'm assuming this could happen if only 80% accurate)? Would you recommend surgery to investigate? Just trying to think through all the different scenarios as it may be we can rule some things out but can't definitely say it is an incomplete spay.

Sorry for all the questions!

OP posts:

Lonecatwithkitten · 30/03/2015 18:01

I would and have referred to a specialised centre as if the blood tests are negative the remnant is really tiny. I have had one case (spayed in a shelter) where the remnant was so small that even in a specialist centre with an RCVS/European specialist (the highest possible qualification) in soft tissue surgery could not remove it.
This is very rare, but if you are searching for such a tiny piece of tissue it makes sense to have a world class surgeon do it.

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