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Original poster

Dogs escaped - police euthanise or rehome

27 replies

fingersandthumbs · 23/03/2015 09:46

Desperate for some advice for a good friend please.

Over the weekend 2 of her dogs managed to escape or were accidentally let out from her garden. The garden is 2 acres and has fencing all the way around. She is reviewing her CCTV to find out how/where the dogs escaped but the facts are that they did and were therefore not in control.

The 2 dogs went across the a couple of crop fields that they are often walked in, (with farmers permission) Unfortunately, they then went into a field that had ewes in lamb in. They apparently did not chase the sheep but obviously the sheep were scared/worried.

The police are now involved and have said that she either needs to have the dogs euthanized or rehouse them separately.

She knows that she is extremely lucky that the farmer did not shoot the dogs, she knows that this situation could have been much worse but can anyone confirm whether she can ask if the dogs could be rehomed together?

They are 4 years old, they have been part of a bigger pack of 6 dogs, since they were puppies. To rehouse them apart would be something that they are not used to.

I appreciate that dogs worrying sheep is an emotive topic and I also understand the anger and worry that the farmer is no doubt feeling but if posters could concentrate on the question regarding rehoming together/separately rather than recriminations it would be very much appreciated.

Thank you

OP posts:
LokiBuddyBoo1 · 23/03/2015 10:23

Didn't know the police could do that make you rehome or PTS for one little incident of the dogs just going in the field if they didn't chase the sheep or do anything to them.
I could understand if dogs are constantly out of control and worrying the farmers sheep all the time but one accident where they got out and went in his field and didn't chase them or do anything, making your friend rehome or PTS seems really harsh.

PossumPoo · 23/03/2015 10:26

I doibt they would need to be rehomed or euthanized for one escape? Is there more to it otherwise I'd be saying no to both 'suggestions'

PossumPoo · 23/03/2015 10:26

*doubt

whatlifestylechoice · 23/03/2015 10:29

That seems like a ridiculous overreaction for one escape?

LadyDeadpool · 23/03/2015 10:30

No they have not been part of a pack. Dogs don't form "packs".

Why is your friend giving up the dogs? She could find a rescue to rake them both together instead of leaving it to the dog warden as the way you have put it makes it sound like she has refused to claim the dogs.

AutumnDragon · 23/03/2015 10:34

As PPs have said, this is very harsh. We live in a similar situation, and no way would I be doing either without exploring all possible means of keeping them.

Stinkle · 23/03/2015 10:46

Has something happened in the past with the dogs? We're the dogs tagged and chipped? As others have said, it's quite harsh for a first time, if they weren't worrying the sheep

I had a very similar thing happen with my dog. The window cleaner had left the back gate open (he'd come on a day I wasn't expecting him and you can't see the gate from the house), one of my kids let the dog out in the garden for a wee and he legged it.

We have fields to one side of us with sheep in, and I usually walk him (on lead, with permission) across them, down to the nearby beach, and he just took himself off for his usual walk. He totally ignored the sheep, he was just intent on getting to the beach. I was half way across the field to look for him when I met the farmer bringing him back. I thanked him and apologised profusely and that was the end of it

Original poster
fingersandthumbs · 23/03/2015 10:47

The police are involved, its not a dog warden. I understand that this is something to do with the farmer being concerned that his livestock were at risk and that he was going to shoot the dogs. The farmer called the police.

She doesn't want to give up the dogs. She has been told by the PC that if she doesn't either have the dogs PTS or rehome separately that she will be prosecuted and could face a large fine or imprisonment (worse case.) At the moment both dogs are staying with me, but I cannot take them on long term.

She is exploring ways of keeping them together, hence one of the reasons for posting here. She doesn't want to give them up. It is one escape, no previous history.

The ewes are in lamb and she has been advised that there is serious concern that the stress of the dogs will cause loss of livestock.

The police are due to visit her again in the next few days to find out what she is going to do re the dogs.

OP posts:
Original poster
fingersandthumbs · 23/03/2015 10:50

Yes both tagged and micro chipped.

The farmer has shot dogs before so she knows that she is very lucky but I agree that it seems an over reaction.

I assume that its the Dangerous Dogs Act that is relevant here?

OP posts:
ShiningBright · 23/03/2015 10:53

Seems like a crazy and unreasonable over-reaction.
Can she speak to the farmer in person?
Near me there is someone who does training for dogs around sheep. Could she use this as a bargaining tool, by getting some training like this?

MythicalKings · 23/03/2015 10:56

Just having dogs running in the fields is enough to cause a sheep to miscarry.

The farmer was within her rights to shoot them and it's kind of her to suggest rehoming elsewhere.

LaurieFairyCake · 23/03/2015 10:57

I think it's a massive overreaction .

No one will agree with me but I'd keep the dogs and not rehome them. They can't prosecute or euthanase on something that hasn't happened yet Confused

Right now there is no damage and no prosecution pending. The time to get rid of them is when the police prosecute - though I still wouldn't and would argue my case.

I would however, never and I mean never let the dogs free roam again. They can get out so they can't be trusted in the garden.

MythicalKings · 23/03/2015 11:04

I think the police suggestion is instead of a possible prosecution. The farmer could insist.

LaurieFairyCake · 23/03/2015 11:13

Surely you need damage to get the dogs put down Confused?

She'd only get a fine surely for them getting out?

AlpacaMyBags · 23/03/2015 11:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
fingersandthumbs · 23/03/2015 11:31

Laurie, whilst there was no physical injuries caused to the sheep (no biting, no chasing) they have been traumatised and MythicalKings is correct that the stress of the dogs running in the same fields is enough to cause sheep to miscarry. The farmer has his livelihood and the health of his flock to consider. The dogs' owner is very grateful that the farmer didn't shoot them.

The farmer has not suggested rehoming. The dogs' owner has been told not to contact the farmer by the police. It is the police who have said rehome separately or euthanize. Do they have the authority to do this at this stage, or is this something that a court would order if a prosecution happens?

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 23/03/2015 12:00

I imagine that this is simply a suggestion from the Police.
Your friend has not been convicted of a crime and so cannot be " made " to do anything by the police with her dogs.
She does need to take this very seriously and should be grateful the dogs weren't shot but she can explore other options than euthanise or rehome at this stage

LaurieFairyCake · 23/03/2015 12:03

I agree that the farmer could have shot them and if the sheep don't miscarry she's very lucky.

The police don't have the authority to tell her what to do, they can put it to cps to prosecute - only the court can compel her.

And I doubt Cps will prosecute unless damage occurs ie. The sheep miscarry

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/03/2015 12:06

Your friend has not been convicted of a crime and so cannot be " made " to do anything by the police with her dogs.

She has been told by the PC that if she doesn't either have the dogs PTS or rehome separately that she will be prosecuted and could face a large fine or imprisonment (worse case.)

I interpret it as the police have told her to get rid of dogs, or be prosecuted. So no, she doesn't have to get eid if the dogs, but if she doesn't she will be prosecuted, as she has committed a crime - they are her dogs, her responsibility, and they were in with sheep.

I'm sure they could be rehomed together.

Original poster
fingersandthumbs · 23/03/2015 12:07

Hopping, that's what I thought. I think the implication from the police is that if these things don't happen then a prosecution will be recommended.

Does anyone know what the results of prosecution could be for a first offence, for both the owner and the dogs?

OP posts:
AggressiveBunting · 23/03/2015 12:17

£1000 I think. I don't think the court can force her to rehome to dogs, but obviously, if the same thing happens and the farmer sees them in the field again, she won't be quite as lenient.

Original poster
fingersandthumbs · 23/03/2015 12:18

Itsallgoingtobefine, she is hoping that the police will agree to them being rehomed together but she's worrying as the police told her yesterday that it needed to be separately.

I think that once the initial shock is over it will be time to have a discussion with the police with proposals of what she plans to do regarding re housing. The situation with the ewes may also be a little clearer then. My friend wants to recompense the farmer for any loses her dogs have caused.

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 23/03/2015 12:22

It depends on whether damage occurs, obviously if the sheep do miscarry she might be fined heavily and have the dogs ordered to be euthanised.

But if nothing happens ive seen very small fines imposed, £150 for example.

And again, if no damage results then the cps might not prosecute.

If she undertakes to keep them locked up so they can't get out, pays for a behaviour assessment, gets the fences looked at, installs chains so they can't get out - these are just suggestions. It will show she's serious about it never happening again.

You can google for court results regarding dogs/sheep as search terms.

HcachumBabow · 23/03/2015 12:45

Trevor Cooper is a expert in the law relating to dogs, he may be able to offer suitable legal to your friend.

MelB2014 · 23/03/2015 17:12

Make sure your friend speaks to the experts at www.doglaw.co.uk/ they will know exactly what the Police can and cannot make you do.

A court issued Destruction Order is required to force anyone to destroy a dog.

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