In ground dog fences?

[Droflove]

Whats the general consensus on these? Are they part of the 'cruel' list or considered useful if a bit expensive. I have 5 acres, pup adores to run like a loon but now its getting to the point where I can never let her off (chasing chickens and the lambs will be out in the fields shortly) so its either wireless fence her favourite field which is half ringed with outbuildings and high walls, or keep her on a lead at all times. I would only need to use the buried wireless fences in two small areas of the field but she would be free to run, chase mice, roll around and have access to some very comfy outbuildings as the weather gets better. I'm really only thinking of a couple of hours a day when the weather is good. The rest of the time shes in with us and just out for short walks and pee breaks.

No, no and no. Electric Fences

A line is really good to practice recall with. I have a horse lunge line which is great. We had no secure garden with one of our dogs. He used to just leg it for hours. He was dog hell. Can you fence in a small area so the pup can go out without you? It really doesn't have to be posh and expensive! I went through masses of dog behaviourists before I found a solution to devil dogs belting off.

What about a nice, thick, dense, exceptionally thorny bramble hedge or hedge rose?
David Austin do a lovely pink one but can't remember what it's called.

Be cheaper than an electric fence, good for wildlife and unless the dog is an absolute lunatic should be dog proof?

Electric fences are dreadful. The dog often learns to associate the pain with something in the environment instead. The only dog I know whose owners have an electric fence for it is always running loose and is a miserable, panicky creature :(

Also, what's wrong with a real fence?!

Thanks for the responses. Read some more about them and the general consensus is that they are cruel. I have a feeling my pup will dig her way under a real fence and bushes take quite some time to grow to a suitable thickness but ill look at a wire fence along the open bits of the field and see about stepping up the recall training for pee breaks so that she can run free when I'm out with her but we can get back inside once I need to (2 babies usually waiting in a safe spot for our return so I was nearly in tears chasing her for 20 mins the other day knowing the little one was crying). I also noticed that it's supposedly 'cruel' to tie up a dog outside. So on a sunny day some people wouldn't approve of me putting her on a long lead outside the door to lie in the sun?

If you tie her up unattended and she does something stupid you could end up with a strangled or hanged dead dog...

I think you need to train her and use a long line. I also think, while life is hectic work two babies, you should just pay a dog walker to exercise her.

Before condemning in ground fencing as always cruel I think you must consider that the answer is, as always, it depends. I wouldn't advocate that anyone just installs it - it doesn't suit careless or inexperienced dog owners.

If there are circumstances where no other method of containment is suitable then it can work well. Training is crucial and can take weeks if not months.

It's not a question of the dog or dogs walking up to the fence and getting zapped willy nilly. Someone mentioned up thread about the white flags. These are the first visual clue. As the animal passes beyond the white flags into the boundary area, there is both an audible buzzing activated on the collar, coupled with a vibration. These increase in intensity as the dog approaches the critical zone. It is then and only then that the dog receives a shock which in itself is adjustable depending on the size and temperament of the dog.

I have used these boundary fences for 10 years now on a variety of breeds and have never experienced the behavioural problems or anxieties that I've heard mentioned. The most shocks that my dogs have received is one (or in the case of a particularly dozy GR, two). This is because I have always trained them, slowly and meticulously where the boundaries are and how to recognise them. They are calm and relaxed and have never bolted through, whatever the provocation.

The reason that I use the in ground system is because we live in a large property in a very rural area, prime sheep and rabbit country. We have a busy yard with the horses etc and although I have no worries about my dogs lack of recall etc, there are occasions where delivery drivers, farriers, kids etc can leave a gate open and I can't risk my animals being unsupervised around livestock or getting under wheels. My dogs are always out and about with me but, with the fence in situ I can relax without the worry of them sneaking off when my back is turned.

I would add that they are collar trained; they know instantly when the collars are removed that it's safe for us to leave to go for their walk.

As I said I am not advocating this system but just wanted to say don't condemn it out of hand. In certain circumstance, if introduced with great care and attention then it can work well.

What happens if they give chase after a cat and pumped full of adrenaline dash straight through the shock and are then too wimpy to brave a shock to return...?

Genuinely curious.

Hello Buttholelane (great user Name btw!) It hasn't happened - perhaps I have just been lucky. Only the other day we had a big male hare strolling through - the one creature that I find it impossible to call them off.

They of course took off in hot pursuit and screeched to a halt inches from the forbidden zone. They just then looked disappointed and mooched off. The hare strolled on!

I would add that there is a post and rail fence that is a physical boundary but the invisible boundary sits some 18 inches within this.

DH's family used this years ago as they had a lot of land, and the dogs just used to roam free. They were trained as described above and it worked pretty well. They did have one clever dog though that found an area of the fence which was weaker- he would then angle his neck to limit contact and just belt it through to the other side and take off.

We considered it but I just couldn't zap my dog. It turns out she has some sort of weird boundary respect anyway and won't leave the garden unless we're with her. Kikopup on you tube has a video on how to train your dog to stay within a defined, but unfenced, area.