Three (smallish) children and a puppy. Would you? Have you?

[SmileAndNod]

We lost our beloved dog five years ago. I miss him. Every day. Despite having two children since and all the madness and noise that three children bring we still miss having a dog. We always thought that we would get another one day once the children were bigger. They are now coming up 8, 5 & 2.

Would it be too soon still? I don't have my heart set on anything in particular, or at any time in particular - we were just having the conversation after a recent new puppy addition to the wider family visited and we all fell in love with. It was lovely having a dog running about the place again and it prompted the kids to tidy their toys which was a bonus

So I wondered are children and dogs a bad mix? Which breeds are quite easy going? We were thinking of a lab / retriever type dog?

If I've failed miserably at training my children to follow basic commands will I be a crap dog owner

Any advice / stories / things we should consider welcome

We've had a puppy with a 2,4,6 and 8 year old, then with a 4, 6 ,8 and 10 year old- we like to have two dogs.
It was okay, but I had to train the kids to act sensibly when the pups were chasing ankles and I couldn't rely on them to watch them for even a minute.
We've just lost the older of our two dogs and are trying to decide whether to get another puppy ( kids are not 7,9,11 and 13) or a young dog from a rescue.
I'm not sure I have another puppy in me!

We've been.

You were right. They were adorable

However our middle child, the bravest of the three was completely terrified when presented with four adult dogs and so the breeder (rightly so) has reservations about us eventually having one of her pups. The child who historically had been wary of dogs wanted to take one home and now is desperate for a puppy

The adults were beautiful, very calm and I could imagine one of them as part of our family. Sadly not to be.

The breeder did offer us a visit with just the middle child on her own, and also to 'borrow' one of her dogs for the day. So maybe that sounds hopeful

Quick update from me. Had a call from the breeder this morning and now she's been thinking about it further and chatting to other breeders, she's even more reluctant for us to ever have one of her dogs as dc2 was wary even when presented with two dogs and a litter of small pups, so she's not even sure a second visit will help

I can completely see her point with regards as to how she has to put her dogs first, just as we have to put our children first (she had a pup come back once). And if we thought that our child was genuinely terrified we would of course not even entertain the idea of dog owning. But we know she's been ok with dogs in the past, on the few occasions she's met them, and loved my mum's pup.

It's true, none of our children are really used to or at ease with dogs, the way you are when you've had a dog for years, or been brought up with dogs as I was. But then how do you ever get over that? It's kind of a catch 22 isn't it?

Sorry it's a bit rambling. We just feel a bit disappointed I suppose and I also feel guilty as now Ds wants a dog and we can't ever have one

If the issue is that your DC just haven't met that many dogs, do something about it.

There will be things like fun dog shows near you, they're often run as fundraisers for dog charities and are more about a fun day out than any serious showing.

Try and arrange to spend more time with dogs, friends or family.

Keep in touch with the breeder and tell her your plans for getting the DC more confident with dogs and that you're still interested in a puppy from a future litter.

We have four children 2, 5, 8 and 11. Our lab was born Oct 14 and we have had him since Dec. He feels like he's always been with us. Only problem was the obsession with biting youngests nappy and DS trying to walk with puppy on his bum. He was easy to train though. Totally wonderful, love him.

none of our children are really used to or at ease with dogs, the way you are when you've had a dog for years

none of mine were when we got our pup (twins were 3, big one was 9)- one in particular was terrified of dogs

within a week or so the main problem I had and still have was stopping them from jumping with glee on any random slavering beast they saw

I think your breeder is overthinking- or perhaps most likely knows dogs more than she knows kids

Hmmm. Possibly Muddha. She has lots of dogs and no children. I could see that children were an alien breed

Just not sure whether to persevere with it all. Got the impression that her mind was made up do not much point keeping in touch.

Btw when we got our first dog (I was age 6) it just appeared on my birthday. Don't ever remember being consulted or taken for visits!

The breeder sounds very responsible, take her advice seriously. You do not want to end up with a situation where your child feels uncomfortable in his/her own home because of the dog.

I would agree with the suggestion above to expose the DCs to more dogs. The good weather will bring dog shows, local shelters may have open days, visit friends with dogs and even offer to dog sit for a friend.

Puppies can be difficult for small children to adjust. The ideal is two little ones playing together, the reality is that the puppy may be quite overwhelming for the child. Many (most?) puppies will play bite, pull on clothes, trip you up, push you over, bawl into you, chew toys and generally be a bit of a horror until they learn manners. The Dog must be supervised at all times with the DCs and the DCs also have to learn how to behave around a dog.

Puppies are super cute but they can add a bit of stress to your life with sleepless nights, toilet training, extra dirt in the house, etc. People with young children tend to have their hands full already and it is more sensible to wait a few years before adding a dog to the mix.

I think the breeder sounds responsible as well...I suggested keeping in touch partly for that reason, but partly because hopefully she'd see that you working on the problem rather than just giving up bodes pretty well for good dog ownership

Absolutely responsible. Some no doubt would just be happy to sell whatever to whomever. And we would definitely not want to be in a situation either where one of our children was terrified in their own home or whereby we would have to return a dog (for whatever reason). That just wouldn't happen. We would also never leave a dog with a child unattended. I just wouldn't trust it.

I just don't know how to get her to a place where owing a family dog would ever be possible. As I said, dc2 is the one who's never had a problem with dogs, twas the other one who did!

Going to shows is a possibility and I know the dogs trust do an open day in the summer. Though I would never encourage the children to go up to a random dog for a cuddle anyway.

Would you recommend a second visit then? Not to see if she was better as such, but just for more dog exposure?

of course you can have a dog at some point but maybe you could start getting your middle child a bit more used to dogs in the meantime

do you have any friends with calm, well-behaved dogs he could be around?

So this is a new thing with your middle DC? Has something happened to frighten her/him? Can he/she explain why he/she is worried?

You are right not to encourage the DCs to just go up to random dogs but properly managed there is no reason why they can't interact with dogs you meet in the park for example. Teach the DCs to ask the owner's permission first and then ask the dog's permission (present a hand at dog nose level for the dog to sniff. If the dog walks away, backs off or moves head away, leave the dog alone. If the dog sniffs, or licks the hand, give a little stroke under the chin.)

If your DC has had a bad experience with a dog you may need to orchestrate his/her next encounter. You need someone with a dog with a very strong down stay. The dog is asked to lie down and stay down, your DC takes the initiative to approach, or not, your DC should be and feel in control of the situation. Friendly dogs can often appear scary to children because they run up to them, lick them on the face, maybe even jump up or push them over - the dog means well in its exuberance but it is easy to see why a young child would be frightened.

TBH I find that kids are so messy and noisy and chaotic anyway that you don't even really notice a puppy when you add one in. Perfect time to get a puppy if you ask me, far more traumatic if you have a quiet pristine home!

Thanks, was on school run. It seems to be a recent thing with dc2 - no bad experiences that I can think of, just last week she was stroking two dogs (lab, and puppy lab) outside school so completely out of the blue. She can't articulate her thoughts that we'll, the only thing she said to us was that there were too many dogs.

But they were incredibly friendly, wanted to play and one did loudly bark at her. I can only think it was this - I just don't know. My brother has a little pup but it's incredibly small, skittish, jumpy and has teeth like needles (as they do). She's not overkeen on him. She's also not good in new situations / environments to the point where she can 'play up', be a bit attention seeking and act for effect and I'm wondering if a bit of this was going on at the visit too (she was also very tired). Can't help think (but maybe wrong) that if she had met in her surroundings it may have been different.

Think we're just going to have to wait it out until she's older at least. It's just the odd behaviour at the visit that I can't understand. And I'm cross that I've made the rest of the family want something they can't have.

Having bit of a bad day. Can you tell

My 5 year old DC is very wary of dogs. He was introduced to them because he used to be terrified and a dog show would tip him over the edge lol.
I can count on one hand how many dogs of friends he's touched. He watches tv with his arm around our lab. But any other dog, as far as he's concerned, needs to keep it's distance. Some kids are naturally wary. Your own dog is always different.

Ah but it's getting to that 'it's our own dog' point that is probably going to be the stumbling block.

Still I guess we have survived this long without a dog (though I still miss ours terribly) and I suppose we'll continue to manage.

The day we bought our puppy home we explained to my DS that he was just a baby. Within 5 minutes DS was stroking his head, singing lullibies to make him sleep and saying "I know you miss your mummy but I'll look after you". It's been a bond from day one. My puppy did mouth him a bit but he's done it more on me, DH, the older two and the cat. DS has always been gentle so Dlab learnt to do the same. With the exception of the cat, the rest of us are more rough and tumble. Kids often suprise you.

I totally accept the breeder is being responsible, but my youngest (4) was the one who REALLY wanted us to get a dog, but was always wary when we went to visit the puppies...he's slowly getting more and more confident with our puppy especially now, at 16 weeks, she's starting to mouth less, and calm down (a bit - she is a retriever after all ). I would try and gently get your DS used to as many dogs as you can and perhaps try again in a few months time - or consider an older dog? My friend rehomed the most beautiful black lab from Gumtree - I think she was lucky, but she did spend a lot of time looking; he is the most placid, calm dog, and has been so well trained, but the family's new baby was allergic to dogs so they had to rehome him. Maybe that's another option?!

I'm going against the grain here, but I still think a bit of an overreaction on the part of the breeder

Your middle dc went to a stranger's house, full of dogs, and was wary. Ime of four year olds, anything could have provoked this response, no? My kids at four might have hung back in a strange house for all manner of odd reasons frinstance breeder smelled of mince or had a mole on her chin

I think a load of dogs in a breeder's house is a world away from your own dog in your house. You sound very sensible and aware of all the issues around dogs and children

I'd be tempted to find another breeder. After all, you know your dcs better than a stranger would after a brief acquaintance!

Sorry, just read your post in full

Yy to 'too many dogs'

That would put me off and I love dogs, me

We got a dog when the dcs were little. They still tell me how much they enjoy growing up with dogs. Really. Almost daily.

It's hard work. But you know that. And the fun far outweighs the not-fun.

We should - hopefully - be having a new pup in a few weeks. The dds have so far grown up with a dog but he was a very distant dog to them, wary and a bit intolerant of them. He'd never let them cuddle him or sit next to him, he'd get up with a filthy look on his face and slope off and sulk. So although they are used to a dog it will be a whole new experience for them to grow up with a dog that actually interacts with them. They are not used to being jumped all over and nibbled at. It will be a learning curve for all of them. I hope at the end of it they have a healthy respect, a decent knowledge of training and a new best friend.

I know I do this on every 'perfect family dog' thread but... My dog really is the perfect family dog . He's a Toller - if you like retrievers you'd love Tollers. He is infectiously happy, bright, playful, easy to train, fantastic with children and not too big so less overwhelming than one of the big show goldies

There aren't that many puppies around so you'd have to go on a waiting list but as you're not in a rush that's no bad thing

You have a beautiful dog there basildonbond.

So we've been mulling this over for a few days now. We've felt a bit miffed as the breeder didn't really know our daughter, but made a judgement anyway, and like you say muddha four year olds can be a bit unpredictable at the best of times!

However we've phoned another breeder (who has children herself) and whilst she was of the view that children can be wary until they get to know the dogs, she thinks that puppies shouldn't be placed with small children (until they're at nursery) as the puppy can be easily forgotten about in a busy family and the devil makes work for idle paws! She's had dogs returned through bad behaviour and lack of training.

So I think we've come to the end of hoping for a dog. We'll just have to be a non dog family. Which is a shame as we grew up with dogs and I think it can be quite lovely for children. My friend (children same age) has just got a 12 week puppy so we're off round there for puppy cuddles

Anyway, thank you all for your advice and support.

Awww, I'm sure that's for the best-for now

Don't give up, though! It sounds like this is something you really want to do

A dog leaves a big big hole when it goes. I can't imagine now EVER having No Dog...

When is the youngest in nursery? That's when we got our pup. Have to say that worked perfectly for us-it all happened at the same time, more by accident than design

and it stopped me getting weepy over the kids starting nursery/school

sorry sorry sorry

have just read that back (posted in haste on phone) and realised I come across as some bonkers, dog-at-any-cost evangelist

I'm really not

and it really doesn't matter if you do it later rather than sooner- bigger kids do appreciate having a dog more, ime- little ones love it but then you have the constant battle to get them to behave round it- baby dogs are much easier to train than baby humans

give the puppy an extra cuddle from me you do know that once you see it you'll get one don't you