Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Need some moral support from you lovely behaviour savvy doghousers :( tough decision ahead

34 replies

DunelmDoris · 02/03/2015 23:23

This is really long. Sorry.

DH's dog is very very old and has an enormous list of problems, but essentially is still in sickeningly good health physically. He and I have never really gelled but I'm really fond of the old codger, and I've done most of his care for years and years.

We've recently had a lot of upheaval and the dogs have unavoidably had a shit time, disrupted routine and confusing things to deal with. They've had supplements to help them cope, and DH's dog is on medication to counteract anxiety anyway.

The dog has, over recent years, become very grumbly and even aggressive at bedtime. He doesn't like being roused to go for a pee (fair enough) but he also struggles to go all night without wetting so we have had to be diplomatic and coax him out carefully to avoid conflict.

Since the upheaval recently he's started to go up to our bedroom and guard the bed. Tonight I tried to coax him off so I could get in but he became really aggressive and eventually cornered me, snarling at the backs of my legs for a minute or two before calming enough for me to edge away, at which point he followed me and I couldn't go further because the door opens inwards. He has history of biting, but not for years and it was always because we'd handled situations badly. Latterly, once we understood him better, we had no further problems. But I have no doubt that tonight I came close to being bitten.

Now, I deal with dog behaviour on a professional basis, and for that reason I'm giving myself a really hard time. I feel that I shouldn't be having these issues. But I also know I've been as diplomatic as possible with this dog, I've avoided conflict, rearranged situations to keep the peace and always tried to incentivise him to avoid aggression. And that's worked well. But he's too anxious to leave alone at night but dangerous if allowed to be in with us where he wants to be (he's crated in the kitchen tonight and not happy about it, but after what happened DH wanted him there, understandably I guess).

DH had said he thinks that it's time to put him to sleep. I'm not sure - it seems like the poor dog has had a really rough week and we should try harder to manage the situation. But DH is also worried about the DC. The dog has never shown any aggression towards them and is never in a position where they could be at risk from him, but I sympathise with DH because tonight was scary.

Honestly I was scared - I deal with dogs which are stressed and aggressive every day, but I've never really felt cornered like I did tonight and normally if he gets grumpy I can placate him by backing off. This time he just kept coming. Who knows if there are other physical issues at play. So maybe it's time. But I just don't know :(

OP posts:

starodyssey2015 · 02/03/2015 23:39

Hiya, have you ever read the dog listener? I am no expert but it sounds like your dog thinks it's alpha. It must be awful for you with the stress of a new house and with him being so grumpy but I really recommend reading it. I don't know if you have as you've stated you deal with aggressive dogs daily but did wonders for my parents dog in her final year.

It basically gives you the easy instructions to put them back in their place. Then he wouldn't guard the bed as he knows it's not his to take. And whatever you want you can have because you're the alpha and he won't need to be aggressive.

Anyway good luck, we have an old dog who thinks he's alpha but he's small and cuddly so we let him think he is. But if he were to get aggressive we would be doing the steps. Hope this helps.

Original poster

DunelmDoris · 02/03/2015 23:51

Thank you but I'm afraid the whole alpha/dominance thing has been shown time and again to be unhelpful and incorrect. He's not dominant - he just doesn't want to be moved and is using aggression to defend his spot. Jan Fennel's ideas are pretty bonkers but some of the more harsh alpha stuff would just lead to me being bitten, not a good idea.

OP posts:

MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig · 02/03/2015 23:55

Sounds to me like he's old and confused. You say he'd never go for the dcs, did you used to say he'd never go for you either?

Sorry but I think he's starting to become a bit of a risk. You say you know dog behaviour, I expect deep down you know that and you're asking for clarification and agreement. I am very sorry though, it's not an easy decision for anyone.

Adarajames · 02/03/2015 23:57

It's such a hard decision to make isn't it. I've got an elderly girl here, she's pretty senile now, but her confusion comes out as periods of confused whining rather than aggression which is easier in some ways to deal with. I think if he's already anxious then the move will have really unsettled him, maybe give him a bit longer and see if he settles down once used to the changes? and a vet check just to be sure isn't anything else / pain going on causing relapse to aggressive behaviours.
And God yes, the dog whisperer doesnt half spout some utter (and dangerous!!) crap!

DishwasherDogs · 02/03/2015 23:58

Stair gate so he can be crated but with newspaper down to wee so he doesn't have to be woken up?

If you were reading your op as someone else's situation, would it be more clear cut to make a decision?

Has illness/pain been ruled out?

Mumteadumpty · 03/03/2015 00:49

Is your upheaval going to settle, or will things remain uncertain? Are you certain that there is nothing physical going on for him? I think if I was actually frightened by a dog's behaviour, then I would find it difficult to manage my unease around them, and I think the dog would pick up on that too, and be affected.

starodyssey2015 · 03/03/2015 01:00

Can I just make a point the dog listener worked for my dogs. Please don't disregard my comment. If you don't agree with it that's fine but I feel I've had some good progress out of that book and was only trying to help.

starodyssey2015 · 03/03/2015 01:02

And no you Definitely don't want to be bitten! Maybe leave him to see if he settles and supervise him around your children :)

Original poster

DunelmDoris · 03/03/2015 06:24

Star I'm sorry to have offended you but those methods have been thoroughly discredited by science.

I'm going to talk it over with a colleague today (I'm a vet) to get some perspective. He hates the crate - he is really anxious and finds it pretty distressing. Which is a shame because that would be a good solution :(

OP posts:

merrymouse · 03/03/2015 06:35

If he is so grumpy, could it be that he isn't actually that healthy? Sorry if stating the obvious - I know you are a vet.

It doesn't sound as though he is happy, and I don't think he will become happier if you are all (necessarily) wary of him.

Hakluyt · 03/03/2015 06:40

He sounds as though he's completely miserable to me. Confused, unhappy and just not knowing what's going on. Beating PTS is not the worst thing that can happen to an animal.

Lilcamper · 03/03/2015 06:55

Management is a good idea here. A stair gate so he can't access the bed to guard it. Just make sure he has somewhere just as comfy to settle though.

muttynutty · 03/03/2015 07:41

Yep prevent access to the area he guards. Wake him up by dropping a yummy smelly treat by his nose then lead a trail of yummy treats to the door to go out to wee.

Any change in behaviour would worry me re health but I guess you have that base covered

tabulahrasa · 03/03/2015 07:45

You probably have, but given his age and that it's moving at night that's become an issue - have you checked for arthritis type issues?

Original poster

DunelmDoris · 03/03/2015 07:52

Yep he's always had a tendency to guard his spot in the evenings so we've used a method of waking him gently by putting on lights and chatting, or if that fails giving the chair a little shake from behind, then luring him with food, and it's always worked well. He's never guarded in the daytime.

It's not "normal" guarding though now, he is doing it before he goes to sleep, and is continuing to show aggression as I retreat, and no amount of softening my body language and turning away from him was helping. It feels unpredictable - until now I've always been able to read and manage him safely, and he just had to look at me and I'd know that he was feeling threatened and change tack.

He becomes highly anxious behind a stairgate and will try to chew through the bars or wall. This anxiety has also come with age and only affects him at night. He is on trazodone which has helped him a lot but now I'm wondering if it's disinhibiting him, although he's been on it for months and months. :(

OP posts:

Original poster

DunelmDoris · 03/03/2015 07:55

He's had trials of various NSAIDs in case pain is an issue but nothing has made any difference. In terms of mobility he is remarkably good for his age, really active and with very little stiffness. That makes it harder.

But yes, he is miserable. Party of the day anyway, and I am struggling to find a way round it. We've always managed his issues over the years with various combinations of people sleeping with him, medication, radios, gates and doors, etc but this feels like a catch 22.

OP posts:

tabulahrasa · 03/03/2015 08:16

It seemed a bit obvious, but figured it was worth asking anyway...

If it helps any my vet has a dog with behavioural issues, so does the behaviourist I used to see - because sometimes things aren't fixable and it is just about managing them as best you can, however expert or not you are.

merrymouse · 03/03/2015 08:29

What is his quality of life?

Twooter · 03/03/2015 08:49

He's old. He doesn't have a good quality of life and he is spoiling your quality of life and the stress could have knock on effects on your dc's quality of life. I understand that sometimes as a vet, you may feel you have to try that bit more, but if everyone would benefit from him being pts, don't be afraid of that option.
Are you worried about being judged by your colleagues by having him pts before he is at death's door? I certainly wouldn't judge anyone in your position.

moosemama · 03/03/2015 10:25

It does sound like CCD, especially with the night time anxiety.

Is it worth trying a different medication. I don't know enough about it, but is it possible he's built up a tolerance if he's been on it for an extended period? Or maybe an adjunct treatment with a shorter active phase like Clonadine to cover nights?

Original poster

DunelmDoris · 03/03/2015 11:36

Thank you all.

I spoke about it with a trusted colleague and friend and she supported the decision to put him to sleep. He's gone :(

Very sad but a bit relieved/accepting of it as well. It was the right thing to do I think. It helped to spill it all on here so thank you x

OP posts:

merrymouse · 03/03/2015 11:44

Sometimes the end of life is sad, both in humans and dogs. He didn't die in agony or after a long, restrictive illness. Remember his whole life.

tabulahrasa · 03/03/2015 12:22

Ah, it's always easier when it's a nice straightforward sudden physical thing I think. The sort of thing where you can't doubt yourself.

Not that I think you should be doubting yourself, but when it's not cut and dried I always do...

If he was unhappy and escalating and making you all unhappy and anxious as well, I think you've done the right thing, for what my opinion is worth anyway.

Adarajames · 03/03/2015 12:24

for you, it's so hard to make that decision but aometimes it's the kindest and only thing to do x

moosemama · 03/03/2015 13:42

A really hard decision, but not one you took lightly and taken for all the right reasons.

Now you can focus on remembering him as the grumpy old codger you were really fond of, rather than fretting about how unhappy he was and worrying about what he might do next.

You made the kindest choice you could for him, under very difficult circumstances.

Flip

1 2

Swipe left for the next trending thread