2 Year old Border Collie nipping the kids!

[MummyBtothree]

Our gorgeous 2 year old collie is a lovely dog and the perfect family dog. He's a soft as grease with the kids but regularly goes on a bit of a mad one 'nipping' the kids who are 13, 11 and 2. Ive heard that they actually do 'round up' kids like sheep, is this true??

Do not allow this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's not amusing in the least!

I have a border collie also, this was the very first thing I taught her.
Do not herd people. EVER.

This has so much potential to go horribly, horribly wrong, if your dog thinks the kids shouldn't be running or should be over here instead of over there and thinks it's okay to nip them, what happens if said child screams or runs?
Your dog will start cutting in front of them, start staring down, if necessary he will start properly gripping them and biting them.
Border collies can and have hospitalised people before now.

If your dog thinks it can do this to your kids, it's going to think it can do it to other people and their kids aswell, then you've got BIG problems on your hands because if your dog crouches down sheepdog style, giving someone's kid the eye they are going to terrify them. If they then nip or grip because the kid ran or screamed the parents are well within their rights to report you for having a dangerous dog, out of control, in a public place and your dog could be seized and possibly euthanised.
I would report, and I have a border collie!

It is NOT your dogs place to control your children's movement or behaviour.
Your dog should be respecting the kids and doing as they tell it, not the other way around.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but do you know how many collies are put in rescue or killed after injuring kids like this?!
Do not allow it.

Another thing, I would bet that when your dog goes on a mad one its when the kids are being particularly vocal and lively.
Collies like order, control and generally, peace and quiet.
I think your dog is probably stressed and nipping to try and get the children to stop moving and shouting.
I suggest you provide it with a nice, quiet place it can go and chill.
When my kids are being loud, my collie takes herself upstairs to her crate for some peace and quiet.

Yes some Collies will herd anything....given the chance.

It is a natural instinct and in some cases can be encouraged but not herding children, cars bikes etc.

Look at the general balance of your dogs life- a collie needs a lot of mental stimulation and some exercise. Too little mental stimulation and a collie will go self employed.

Check that your dogs daily needs are being met. Do you do any dog sports with your collie or does he have regular brain and training sessions (daily) plus a good long off lead hike?

If your collie is mentally stimulated you may find that he has less time and energy to find his own entertainment.

If the children are running around as they have an absolute right to do pop your collie in a quiet place with a bone and leave him be.

Do not let the children play any chase or "aggressive" high energy games with your dog - they can play fetch, hide and seek, train tricks, or tug under supervision.

Get the children involved in clicker training of your dog and get them teaching him tricks.

The second your dog does go to nip stand still and quiet and stop all interaction with the dog. If he continues to nip remove by his collar to another room - say nothing if all the family do this consistently he will soon learn nipping no interaction, no nipping lots of positive interaction.

The smiley face I used was probably inappropriate, he isa rescue collie and we have only had him two months. So when he starts nipping what is the best way to teach him 'no'?

I would be working on more positive interactions rather than saying no (Butt will probably disagree )

If he is nipping stand still and stop all interactions with him - do not yell, do not shout no, do not pull him off. Just stand still. At first he may continue if he does slowly and quietly ask him to go down then reward the down. Release him with a release command eg ok then quietly and calmly do some other form of play.

Do work on his impulse control Collies are amazing at this (think of them in the field working sheep at full pelt and being told to stop herding and go down). So do lots of waits and then release. So into a down then release with the word ok, in the back of the car, wait until released begin to add distance to this so the dog will go down at the other end of the garden etc.

I love a positive interrupter - make a noise I either have a kissy noise or click my teeth (depending on the dog) instantly reward your dog or play a game - they really quickly learn to stop what they are doing and come to you for more fun. So when this is established any unwanted behaviour from rolling in fox poo, to herding DC, can be interrupted.

I want to say Mutty is well out of order and utterly wrong but I'm afraid I do disagree yeah.

I think the problem with stoping and ignoring is a. I think the nipping is him trying to control the kids movement to begin with so by stopping he has just got his own way and b by ignoring he doesn't actually know his behaviour is wrong.

I would interrupt with a stern no or ah ah then lead out swiftly for a brief time out.

I also think that you should provide a nice, quiet, relaxing area that the dog can go to if things get too intense and encourage him to go and relax there.

The nipping is not the dog trying to control a the childrens behaviour - it is an instinctive reaction to movement. So no movement no need to herd or nip.

He has not got his own way by you stopping - he realises nothing happens when he nips. Then he is rewarded for an alternative appropriate behaviour the down.

Butt do some reading on Operant Conditioning and it will explain why shouting No will achieve nothing - especially as you said collies like order, control and generally, peace and quiet which I totally agree with. Calm controlled intelligent handing and training

I respectfully disagree, most collies are control freaks who get stressed out by excessive noise or rowdy behaviour and will try and control the behaviour of others.
I bet the dog doesn't nip when the kids are walking calmly though the op may comment and prove me wrong.

Works fine for my dog shrugs.
Think they need to know when you really disapprove of their behaviour in my opinion with some sort of marker like an ah ah or no.
Same as they need to know when you really like a behaviour and want big repeated

I'm going to side with mutty. Dogs are not moral creatures, they do not know right or wrong. They only know what works for them and for collies, who have a huge inherent set of behaviours to resort to, that includes nipping and herding.

In simple terms, the more a dog does (or is allowed to do) a behaviour, the more it will do it in future. So by preventing (use crate strategically) and redirecting (give alternative behaviour to do instead) you will find the unwanted behaviour fades. (Butt, if you're interested in how that works vs telling a dog off, look up extinction of behaviour )

I have a young dog who, when she arrived four months ago, was seriously mouthy and would nip the children when she was excited. She was put on a lead and/or separated from the children when they were playing boisterously, given toys to mouth instead and heavily rewarded for respectful, four-on-the-floor interactions with the DC and she hasn't nipped at all for weeks and weeks now - I can't remember the last time it happened. The behaviour quickly faded once it was managed properly. I never once told her off for it (I did have to apologise to my DC a few times ) and yet it's been really successfully eliminated.

Five years ago a BC herded my then three year old and bit his face. He needed stitches .

It's not nipping, it's biting. Stop it now or pay the consequences.

Doris, I am aware of how the technique works, I just choose not to use it for certain things because I am old school like that.

I am all for redirecting behaviour and liberal use of treats and positive reinforcement in many cases, but, I think that there are some behaviours, like collies nipping people, that in my opinion have such a huge potential for danger, that the dog needs to know in no uncertain terms there will be a consequence for exhibiting that behaviour and that it will not be tolerated.

I don't just tell my dog off. The telling off is coupled with the swift removal of the dog and a brief timeout.
Mutty herself said if he doesn't stop lead him out by the collar.
The only difference being I prefer to do that immediately alongside a negative marker like a NO!
So the dog learns that that particular behaviour will always result in a consequence.

If training a dog was just saying no - why are there so many badly behaved dogs around.........The OP I am sure has tried this and posted because saying No means nothing to a dog and will not stop the nipping behaviour.

I think you saying "old School" is obvious we have luckily moved on in training dogs from ineffective methods used over 30 years ago.

Or an ah ah actually, I tend to use that more than no.
Vary the pitch according to the sensitivity of the dog, my dog is very headstrong and bold so I say it quite sternly but if the dog was one of these uber sensitive, borderline noise phobic collies obviously tone it down.

But it's not just saying no is it?

I never just say no or ah ah because as you say, it's not that effective.

I follow it up with a consequence.
The no is a marker like a clicker indicates a behaviour was good and a treat is coming the no or ah ah indicates a behaviour was bad and a consequence is coming.

I often get compliments on my dog's behaviour so it can't be too far wrong.