Advice needed - socialising puppy with the (slightly crazy) dogs of dsis

[littlepeas]

Looking for some advice. We are getting a golden retriever puppy in 3 weeks time - my dsis has 2 yorkshire terrier/jack russell cross dogs (older puppies, around 9 months) and is keen to get them all together as soon as possible. I think she is concerned that our dog will ultimately be a lot bigger than hers and she wants them to first encounter him when he is small. I am concerned that her dogs are not particularly well trained and, whilst they are very sweet, they are still very bouncy and mouthy, they have no recall and she allows them to jump up. I think she made a mistake in getting 2 of them together as puppies and she is now aware of this, but obviously can't change it now. I am concerned that they will frighten our new puppy with their exuberance and general naughtiness! Any advice regarding the optimum time to introduce them and how?

Just to add, I am aware of my sister's mistakes with her puppies and fully intend to properly train and socialise our puppy. Also, she doesn't have dc yet so the puppies are her BABIES and she is the equivalent of pfb with them (for e.g. - puppy jumps up and nibbles on ds's (age 3) face, ds pushes puppy away, ds is told off by dsis, puppy allowed to get away with it, dh bites his tongue…….).

Someone more experienced will be along soon....but I always take the philosophy that you want to socialise your dogs/puppies with well mannered , well behaved dogs, that will put up with some puppy-ish behaviour but will also let a puppy know if they are overstepping the mark.

Tbh I would avoid you sisters dogs if she is not going to train them. Honestly I would not sit quietly if a dog was mouthing/ licking my 3 yr olds face, and he pushed them off, for him to be them told off.
I know family dynamics are difficult but can you talk to your sister about it?

Be careful.
My in laws have this cross, she is a very sweet dog also, but like many in my experience, a lot of very small dogs are really quite scared of bouncy big ones.

The owners seem to introduce them to lots of similarly sized dogs but not so much to big ones, perhaps because they are afraid of injury.

Anyway, my 10 weeker met this dog and it was a disaster!
The little dog just would not stop growling and snapping at my puppy regardless of where it was or what it was doing, it was constant and very distressing.
Now that my dog is older and my in laws have a second dog that will play with her she is better.
But to be honest, I still catch both little dogs sometimes looking as if they are a little scared or apprehensive of my dog and can only assume it's her size because she is very polite and inoffensive.

Thank you for your advise so far. It really is difficult, because we spend quite a bit of time together and we want the dogs to all get along. Also, we had hoped that dsis would be able to care for our dog if we go away somewhere he can't come with us and vice versa. My parents used to be available for this too, but my dad is very poorly indeed at the moment, so it really is my sister or kennels, which I would prefer to avoid (in laws are cat people). I had hoped that with lots of socialisation they would get along, but the last time I saw her the dogs were crazy - you can't even stroke one of them because he just goes to mouth your hand every time you go to touch him (not aggressively) - and I started to worry, hence posting this!

They DO calm down after the initial excitement of greeting, so maybe there is an idea in us greeting them without our puppy and then bringing him out of his crate once they have calmed down? Although I guess he could set them off again?! I get the impression they have had a few encounters with other dogs - when I said we were getting a golden retriever, she was a bit funny and then said that a young lab had smacked one of hers over the head in the park ('poor puppy' was her response, although I am guessing the puppy could have provoked the other dog and she just doesn't see it in the 'loved up my puppy can do no wrong' zone she seems to be in?).

I think it would be very difficult to bring it up with her without seeming like I am criticising the way she is raising her pups (and I AM criticising her, aren't I?) and she is sensitive at the moment and snippy because she is upset about my dad.

Any ideas??

The size thing - as long as they are all socialised well. I have a giant breed - all 60 kgs of him. One of his best friends is a miniature poodle who is what - about 6KG - they love each other. I will say I was very careful when mine was smaller (but still much bigger than doodle)- that his puppyish enthusiasm was not threatening to the poodle, and at times that meant putting him on lead until he had calmed down.

I just think the thing is it is not a one way street, you can do all you can to make it successful, but your sister has to play her part as well, and she has to have boundaries for her puppies as well, they need to be re-directed when they display unwanted behaviour....given what you have said in your first post, do you think that is likely without a chat?

so how well socialised are her dogs?

Yes I think you want overtime they meet for it to be as calm as possible.

I would say to her that it is really important to you that the dogs get on and are comfortable with each other. That they all learn to behave appropriately together from day one, and you want everything to be calm, as when your dog gets bigger if he has learnt to play roughly with her two when small it could become a problem when he's bigger?

the difficulty unfortunately will be, if they are not well socialised with other dogs, and don't know how to behave appropriately then it will be very hard for you - sorry.

It is bit like children. Before we had children we had some great friends, unfortunately we really don't see much of them now....they have a very loose parenting style, which when our children were young was really unpleasant for our kids to be around (their kids would hit, and they would basically laugh and say - Boys eh) - but no consequences.......so we just stopped seeing them, its sad, but we got sick of our kids being punchbags, and our kids got sick of getting in trouble if they retaliated.

No, I don't think they are well socialised with other dogs - I don't think she's made much effort in that area at all. Frankly, I don't think she made much effort with socialisation at all - she did want them to see my dc a few times when they were little, but I can't say I know of her doing much else. It's a shame - the more I've read in preparation for getting our puppy, the more I have realised how many mistakes she has made. I think she has the attitude that because they are small dogs it doesn't matter as much if they're a bit loopy - it's true that I am very conscious that our dog will be large (we are having a male and his dad is really big, so there is a good chance he will be at the higher end of the size/weight range for golden retrievers) and will live in a home with smallish dc, and as such I am gearing up to train him very thoroughly.

I think that you may be right - her two are probably going to show him exactly how he shouldn't behave. I can see her getting very defensive and blaming our puppy for any problems.

I always think your home your rules, but that becomes v hard with family.

I think what I would be watching for, and guarding against is her dogs, giving your puppy a bad experience. I have a very large dog, and where we used to live there were lots of little dogs - some whose idea of interacting with my dog was to be snappy and growly in his face......there owners thinking this was fine because they were small.

I really don't envy you your situation.

Ok, am thinking I may have a chat with her and say something along the lines of we need to limit how much her puppies are allowed to jump around, etc around our puppy because he has to learn not to jump up due to the size he will be as an adult. If I present it as something our dog must learn, but not something I think her dogs shouldn't be doing she may take it better. She is very focused on worrying about our dog frightening hers when he is bigger, but doesn't seem bothered about hers frightening ours when he is little. Thankfully she is not like this in general, but the dogs are their babies (I'm sure that will change a bit when they do have dc…) and she is quite blinkered when it comes to them.