Degenerative Myelopathy - How do you know when it's time?

[RudeBarbandCustard]

My beautiful beloved GSD has DM.

He started showing symptoms about 2 years ago, aged 7-8, following a life threatening gastric torsion (twisted gut), he had emergency surgery and following that went from being a super fit dog to being weak and wobbly.

I thought it was just lack of fitness following the op, but the weakness gradually progressed and I finally admitted it was DM about 6 months ago. So in reality he's already had it for about 2 years. He is now approaching 10 years old.

Since then, he has weak legs but is able to get up and walk about. He occasionally slips and falls flat on our tiled floor, and that tends to knock his confidence. So his confidence in walking indoors comes and goes.

He is losing his continence - poos in the house / in his sleep a few times a week. Also has 'poo emergencies' when he's sitting with us and will suddenly get up and start pooing, whilst trying to shuffle out the door. We cope with this fine. Recently he's started showing occasional urinary incontinence too. We cope with that, it's not a problem for me.

On the plus side, he loves his walks around the garden, and to the beach. He happily wobbles along woofing and shaking his ball. He adores sitting outside watching the world, and woofing at the wind. I do believe he's happy in himself.

But that impending sense of doom hangs over me. I know what's ahead, I know I'll have to make that decision.

But how, when do you decide? He's happy, he's comfortable, he enjoys his walks. But I keep having this nagging thought that perhaps I should do it now, while he's happy, rather than wait until he's suffering?

I can't bear to part with him. I don't want to hang on to him selfishly, but I don't want to let him go yet.

My vet said I should do it when he has more unhappy days than happy days. We're certainly not there yet. But I wonder, is it fair to let him have any unhappy days, when I could do it now before he knows any pain?

How the hell do you make the decision to let your best friend go?

I'm facing this with my Golden Retriever. He isn't incontinent yet. The vet told us that after the incontinence starts, his rear legs will become more compromised and he will start to drag his feet. She says it is time to PTS when the foot dragging starts.
It's such a horrible decision. My dog still enjoys his food and walks. The only positive of the condition is that it is painless (according to the vet) but we shouldn't allow him to develop sores and cuts on his feet.
My dog also has Canine Cognitive Dysfunction. We came close to PTS a few weeks ago because he was very distressed and "Sundowning". He's going through a good patch at the moment so I'm feeling very guilty that I even considered PTS.

I too, am struggling with the decision, but I thought I'd share my vet's advice with regards to the DM.

Thank you Spaniel and sorry to hear that you're going through something similar.

My dog doesn't drag his back feet yet, but does drag his front paws, which I initially put down to a shoulder injury, but it has carried on.

It's the reason we don't walk him far, as he would drag the front feet until the tops of them bled, and trip over them and smack his face on the ground. He would only do that when he got tired on walks, so since we've stopped the walks he's ok.

But I feel terribly guilty that he only gets to play in the garden (we have a big garden with trees, so its enough for him to potter around there and play hide and seek with his toys). I do take him to the beach, where he isn't obliged to actually walk far, and my other dog can run around to her heart's content.

He's currently woofing at me because he's decided it's play time, he's brought his ball to me. So he's definitely full of fun still.

Just googled Canine Cognitive Dysfunction sounds distressing. Don't feel guilty that you considered PTS, you're only considering the best options for the dog.

RudeBarbandCustard honestly you will know when it's time.

My dog had CDRM however the progression was very slow and he managed very well for a long time. As long as he was happy to do his normal dog things I was happy. By this I mean able to enjoy life, wasn't in pain and he was able to do the things he wanted to do.

In the end my dog told me, he wasn't my dog any more if you know what I mean and I made the decision. I did not want to wait until he couldn't get up as I thought this was undignified and I let him go while he was still comfortable rather than wait for him to deteriorate further. I may be biased though as I am a vet nurse and have seen so many sorry dogs that should have gone earlier and have suffered and I didn't want that for my boy.

I'm sorry you are having to think of this though, the price for having such a fantastic breed is that they really don't last long enough.

Thank you Grey that's reassuring.

He definitely still enjoys life, and is still very much able to do his normal dog things. We've just been to the beach where he loved plodding around with the wind in his ears.

I want to be able to let him go before he loses his dignity. He's such a sensitive soul, I think it would distress him to get into a state like that.

I completely adore him, and I feel that my job for the coming months, however long it lasts, is to make his life happy and comfortable.

I've spent the morning blubbing over him, I feel like I'm grieving for him even though he's still here

What a lovely dog owner you are, to deal with the incontinence - many couldn't. You will just KNOW when the time is right - it could be if he stops eating for example. It sounds as though he's still enjoying life at the moment. x

Oh I just love him Mitchell, completely and utterly. His incontinence isn't a problem for me as long as it's not a problem for him.

I've got a routine, I just get the 'poo cleaning kit' out and deal with it. We have a tiled floor, so it's fine. It means we can't ask anyone else to look after him though, so no holidays for the forseeable (my parents have always looked after him in the past, but it's not fair to ask them to deal with this).

My vet actually said to me "Don't let it get to a point where the incontinence changes the way you feel about him". That made me blub all over again, I'd never resent him for it.

I feel so sorry for you having to deal with this, I know how difficult it is. I cried about my dog so many times before he actually was PTS!

A friend one said to me that it could never be too soon but it could be too late and that did stick with me. Interestingly once my dog did 'go' I didn't feel guilty as I had expected as I knew 100% it was the right thing. It would have felt worse to watch him dragging himself around I think and so he went before he got to that point.

I still think your dog will let you know- I may have kept my dog going if he was playing and able to go for walks like yours but once he can't go out etc I think the kindest thing is PTS. The incontinance thing wouldn't be the end of the world for me either unless the dog is distressed about it in which case that's a different matter. In my experience they are very dignified dogs and don't cope with needing too much help from their humans and if the dog isn't coping that's when I would reconsider.

I really hope you have much more time together!

I adopted an 11.5yr old GSD girl a few years ago and within a few months I noticed that her back legs were wobbly and weakening, the Vet confirmed CDRM. We had for a further year and I put her sleep, more for practical reasons than because of her quality of life. She wouldn't poo in the garden, only on walks but her legs were so weak that she struggled to walk far and fell down often. Over the last couple of months she was finding it harder to get up after a fall and it took a long time which looked upsetting for her. She also loved going in the car but wouldn't walk up a ramp and I had shoulder problems and couldn't lift 35kg of dog into the car.

I made the decision on a Friday, bought her a packet of Jaffa cakes and a whole roast chicken, spent a lovely weekend with her and took her to the vets on the Monday morning. It wasn't my first time having a dog PTS but it was most definitely the calmest and least stressful experience. She walked in, had some cheese pieces in the waiting room and slipped off to sleep quietly while licking my hand.

She could have gone on longer, but I wanted her final days to be pleasant filled with love rather than worry and distress. I have no regrets.

Thank you all for making me feel better. I now feel better that I will know when the time is right.

dotdot bless you for adopting an old GSD, knowing full well what would be ahead of you. It breaks my heart when I see older dogs in dogs homes, thinking that they'll just live out their days there because no one would want to take them on.

I've had mine since he was an 8wk old pup, which has been a fantastic experience. But I'll certainly adopt next time.

Luckily I can manage to get him in and out of the car, but it's a struggle - he's over 40 kg (and he's super skinny, he's just a big boy) and I have a 4WD so it's a high boot!

He thoroughly enjoyed his walk on the beach and we're settling down to cuddles and a bit of 'tennis' tonight where I sit in front of him and he nudges his ball to me with his nose then catches it when I roll it back. He's a clever boy!

Thanks again for helping me to see it will be ok

Thanks Rude - our old girl was fabulous! I saw her advertised on a rescue site and knew she would fit in beautifully with us. She had been taken to the vets to be PTS because her elderly owners were moving into sheltered accommodation. Luckily the vets contacted the rescue who placed her in a foster home. I travelled 300 miles to collect her and she was worth every mile! She was unsettled for the first 24hrs and then settled in like she'd lived here forever. We knew she could live for 4 weeks or 4 yrs and we had no plans to do any radical treatment if she became ill, we were just a retirement home for her to enjoy her twilight years in comfort. It was an immensely rewarding experience for us all.

I do hope you rescue in the future - you won't regret it, and it's the greatest honour you can do your current dog - to save another in their memory.

A picture taken about a month before Gem died...

I think our old girl might have had this, but we managed alone because our vets are worse than useless and she despised going there, and wasn't in pain.
Her back end was fucked, really, sounds a lot like your experiences, including the incontinence, foot dragging and loss of confidence.

Get carpet samples, or rubber mats to put all over the house to give him grip. We made a wee sling type of thing to go under her hips, with a sponge for cushioning. Not to carry her back end, but just to pull it back up if she was struggling. Dog wheelchair was not a success! Neither were rubber bootees.
Would he like a game of tug, or throwing a ball into his mouth as he lies down?
Our girl slept more and more, and in hindsight was deteriorating quickly, one day she made it very clear she was in pain and had had enough. I never believed we would 'just know', because she was so vibrant and full of personality, but it was very obvious she had given up (couldn't stand up, couldn't toilet, was groaning, uninterested in anything and anyone, flat, and weary) we had two hours to say our goodbyes before the vet came to the house, it was the worst day of our lives, but it was the right time and we'd done everything we could for her, and it sounds like you're the same.