When recall goes out the window....

[mintysmum]

My dog is 15 mths old and is generally pretty good with recall. I always have sausages with me on every walk and frequently call him back for a treat and continued walking to avoid him thinking he will go back on the lead everytime.

The past few days I've had a terrible time with him - he has turned into an accident waiting to happen.
Sunday - he refused to come back when I called & blew whistle and ran straight across a road.
Monday - we were walking with a 5 mth old collie puppy whom he bullied (tried engaging in play in a pestering way despite puppy lying on back and squealing). He went back on lead once then after I'd given him second chance becuase he calmed down he danced around me and could not be caught - carried on with his bullying of puppy

Today - at the end of walk he obviously realised the lead was going back on and again he danced away from me and saw it as a great game to escape my clutches. Took 15 mins to get him on lead and I was nearly in tears.

I walked home today from the walk feeling so down - his personality is too much to handle and I'm failing him by not training him properly. I feel I'm out my depth. I went to puppy class, advanced puppy class and have had numerous chats/support from our dog trainer over phone and through home visit.

We walk through woods so a long line wouldn't work at all due to branches, fallen trees etc.

I really am struggling.

Eek mint, that sounds worrying

No real advice here as F is the same age and also being a bit teenagery but hoping one of MN's resident behaviourists will be along soon

I have just started having exactly the same problem with my 10 month old cocker. As soon as she sees me take the lead from my pocket she's off. I've started to dread walking her alone. She's fine if there is another dog who comes back, but on her own she returns half way to me, gives me a look that says 'I've not had a long enough walk, I'm off' and disappears into the nearest undergrowth. Our walks are always at least an hour where I walk between 5-8k, so she must run at least 15k!

She has always been dreadful on the lead and would prefer not to go out than having to walk on a lead, so the long line doesn't really work for us either.

I look forward to some tips.

Hi Minty, first off, don't feel so bad - it's not you, it's perfectly normal at this age.

Go back to basics, exactly like you did when he was a pup. He will get through it, he's just testing his teenage boundaries.

Did you get the Total Recall book? If so, go back to it and work through the stages again - if not, do get a copy and give it a go.

You may need to change where you do free-running (as in longlining) walks for a while if you don't feel comfortable longlining where you usually walk, but it will be temporary and you can still walk him in the woods, just keep him on the lead.

I would also go back to basics with lots of other things to, to reinforce what you expect of him and where his boundaries lie. So, make sure you're enforcing all his usual rules and making things suitably rewarding as well. (Short sharp clicker training sessions, lovely tasty jackpot treats etc)

If it helps, Pip is going through exactly the same at the moment, so much so, I'm having to walk my two separately and it does feel horrible - he's had me in tears too a couple of times. Blooming teenagers!

Pufflemum have you tried doing some positive association with wearing the lead?

Lots and lots of getting the lead out, click/treating - then clipping the lead on click/treating for that, then work up to calling her in the house, clipping on the lead, click/treating and letting her go again, building up to fading the regular treats to intermittent ones and the occasional fantastic jackpot.

Once she's happy being leashed in the house go through exactly the same house in the garden, then a secure area, then try it out and about but have her trailing the lightest longline you can find (something like this ) and making sure she never gets too far away before calling, clipping, reinforcing and releasing.

She needs to change her associations with wearing a lead to those of fun/pleasure, rather than restriction.

I know it sounds really stupid but don't put the lead away / in a pocket when its off that way the dog can see it permanently and won't know when you are going to put it back on as opposed to just giving a treat or a stroke . The other thing I've found with my terrier is that although he sometimes won't come back to me he has a very solid 'down' command and will then wait for me to go to him . Also if your dog has dodgy recall you do have to be a bit selective about where you let them off lead .

Thanks Moose and Flora. She is fine with the lead at home and in the garden but just pulls so badly before a free run, to the extent that she has worn away a patch of fur where the collar rubs. She also heels beautifully in training class, so I assume it's purely an excitement issue with just wanting to go explore.

I have gone back to basics with recall and have the book. I also find that if we walk somewhere new she stays close but at the two places she knows best she is more confident so will go off until she decides the walk is over. It's frustrating being outwitted by a dog, I have children for that.

puffle I'd be tempted to try a harness .

You are not failing him as you are continuing to work with him to help him through these issues. He is testing your patience I can imagine though!

I would do some exercises to get the dog used to making regular eye contact with you (as copied below). Once you have got this in place, I would be calling him back at regular intervals when you are walking. Sometimes just give him a treat and send him away. Sometimes give him a treat, clip him on lead - but only for a short time & then release again. So the dog does not always think that being recalled means instantly going back on the lead for ages. Lots of praise & fun. This is what I do with my dogs and it seems to work for them, but all dogs are different I know! Hope you start to make progress soon

Getting your dog’s attention
It is all about eye contact. If you can get these few exercises in place this would be a good start.

1. Use a ' high end' treat only (liver, sausage, cheese) something the dog is going to do anything for.

Hold the treat out to one side, shoulder height (making sure your dog is aware that it is there). Hold it to the side at arm's length. No matter what the dog does (jump up, whine, sit, anything) she cannot have the treat UNTIL she makes eye contact. It will only be for a split second, BUT YOU MUST INSTANTLY TREAT HER and say GOOD (in a higher tone than you would normally speak, just to keep the tone light). It has to be that instant, then do again, repeat 5 times, and 5 times a day. It’s like watching paint dry, but YOU CANNOT make noises to encourage her, she needs to think for herself. She needs to work it out for herself.

1. Put your dog on a lead; a long training lead. Throw the treat about a foot in front of her, but she must NOT be allowed to get it, UNTIL she makes eye contact, INSTANT "good" whilst release lead (do not drop lead, make a smiley face with it, that's how much lead to use).

Repeat 5 times, 5 times a day, as above. Short and sweet, else she will get bored. The idea here is to start showing the dog that she needs to look to you for anything. This will slowly release her of the pressure to make decisions. It’s all about the eye contact.

I'd second that. Try a Perfect Fit Harness with a front ring. When she pulls, because it's attached at the centre of her chest, she will just find herself turned around to face you.

Good advice to keep the lead on display too. Have a look at the police-style, multiway leads on ebay. I wear mine across my body to keep my hands free anyway, so they're always there, whether I call and release the dogs or clip them back on.

Another tip is to always slide your hand into their collar/harness, even if you're not clipping the lead on and are going to let them continue playing. That way the collar/lead grab isn't always a pre-cursor to the lead being clipped or the end of their freedom and they will start to associate their collar/harness being held with a treat and more fun.

I do understand how frustrating it is when recall breaks down and the develop sudden recall deafness, but it can be fixed, it just takes time, patience and consistency.

Do you walk alone? If so, can you take someone with you a couple of times a week and play the recall game. . I've found playing it as often as we can has really helped recall with all of my dogs over the years.

Fab advice, thank you. We will work on the games.

I have a perfect fit harness, I saw it recommended on another thread. The only time i used it she managed to slip out of it so i haven't attempted it since.

Ironically we are just back from training class where she was brilliant. Completely focused on me (and my sirloin steak). Even the instructor commented how good she is. Maybe if I dress up in a squirrel suit for each walk she would stay with me!!

We have recall problems too. Our 4 year old was a bloody nightmare until he was at least 2. He's still pretty awful in woodlands but better (just) in open areas. You can see it happening, when he's about to leg it and no amount of games or sweets will get him back. I do a bit of clicker training with him on walks, and play 'find the sweetie'.

Thanks for replies. I disappeared there with poorly child issues!
Right I've not walked him off lead since those three days of problems. Lead only - I am too nervous now. The running across the road could have resulted in an accident or fatality and it has really freaked me out. Our daily walk back from school drop is 1.5 miles of woodland with 3 roads cutting across. So used to be an hour of off-lead running, playing, leaping for minty. But before each road, I would scatter treats for him and get lead on no problem. Routine for a year and after this one run across the road (no cars fortunately but there were dog walkers one of whom screamed) I cannot risk it.

But I'm going to read the replies properly and try training and basics.

Thank you. I woke up in the night upset thinking we're not the right home for him, he needs people that are more experienced. That was really upsetting. But I owe him lots more time and effort so onward and upward today. About to walk him on lead though which just seems sad.

Things are so much better today. Hope for others too.

I kept lead on until today and did loads of concentration/control exercises at home - sit, stay, flat, leave it, whatsis and the like though not tried the eye contact exercise yet. So then repeated them all today on a walk off-lead before sending minty off to play. He was brilliant and came bounding back to me everytime I blew the whistle. Perfect.

There were very few distractions so no bouncy dogs to play with which will be the real test but I think for now I'm keeping it low key and low demand while I remind him of the rules!

No way am I walking this Sunday after 10am - last week when he bolted across the road he had come across about 5 toddlers, 10 dogs, 10 bikes and was hyper with it all!

If anybody is looking for secure areas to walk this FB page has recently been set up to collate the securely fenced areas to walk/train in.

www.facebook.com/dogwalkingfields?fref=nf

May be useful.