Ddog2 on crate rest: Mutty, Moose, BooBoo, Lilcamper et all. Adviced welcomed

[needastrongone]

And anyone else with ideas, they would be much appreciated.

Ddog2 was attacked nearly 6 weeks ago. The bite was bad enough to fracture dog2's left wrist and the collateral ligaments surrounding it. There are two (possibly more) fragments of bone floating around.

Until yesterday (to cut a long story short), he was booked in to have his wrist 'fused' via a specialist surgeon. He's been splinted and rested for nearly 6 weeks so has rarely been out of the house, apart from week 1, when the severity of the injury was not known.

He's had a stay of execution re the operation, as he went from barely putting weight down to walking reasonably well within 24 hours of the splint being removed. The specialist is confident that the ligaments have healed, so the splint has done it's job, but the splinters of bone are a concern. They may settle and never cause further issues (he may always have short periods of lameness after too much activity, we are looking to find his equilibrium activity levels long term), they may cause significant lameness/pain and the operation will be inevitable. So, now we try conservative management, which involves 2 weeks full crate rest, then a progressive programme for the following 12 weeks of rehab. At any point, we may have to have the fusion anyway, if this doesn't work.

So, I wondered if you guys have any gentle crate games that I can try? Things I have on the list are - kongs, bones, treats in socks, clicker to differentiate between toys, calming clicker commands. We've exhausted a lot, given the last 6 weeks!!

Also, this is a dog that is by nature, extremely timid. A born worrier! He would appear to still be ok with other dogs thankfully, but is starting to become ever more increasingly nervous of life in general as his life has been restricted. He's a quivering wreck, he practically rushed back into his crate this morning after toileting.

As much as I am worried about the injury and the possibility of a big operation, his mental state worries me more in some ways.

You all probably know we only train using positive methods and he has been extensively socialised, he has not known any 'cruel' interventions.

Help

Advice even - multi tasking not working very well this morning

Well you've already got identifying different objects...that was what I used a lot, because you can just keep adding more, lol.

I also did a lot of commands that could be done while staying still, dead, touch, take it, down with different head positions...but he was only 6 months old so they might not be so useful.

Something that might be is that crate rest doesn't mean crate rest, it means staying still...mine didn't spend a great deal of time in his crate, I just sectioned off that size of space in the room using a coffee table and kitchen chairs so that he could still be beside us rather than actually in his crate.

Also - he's a spaniel isn't he? (I'm thinking size here) If you can carry him, you could drive him somewhere close and sit with him?

I don't know how helpful any of that is, but it'll keep it bumped up at least, lol.

I will say though if it was me and it doesn't heal as well as they're hoping, I'd be adding taking the leg off into the mix. It's usually a quicker recovery time than ortho ops and you're not left with a leg that's forever limiting their exercise and having to be looked after...I know it seems extreme, but my experience has been that having a young dog with a problem leg is quite hard going, for me and him. Mine has other issues that now mean it isn't a possibility, but what he can do is fairly limited compared to what he'd be able to do with 3 legs.

Thanks Tab Ddog is only 9 months

I agree ref crating. I'll let him up on the sofa with us at night, the crate rest is to restrict the dog, rather than the joint, and, in particular, in interaction/playing with ddog1. He would put his foot down for a moment this morning, but with a little walk to the garden to toilet he was walking again, so I think a touch of movement might help in any event.

The car is a good idea, he finds it fascinating, if a bit worrying. He wees and rolls onto his back before we get in, but he does this for most things

The fusion op is a 'definitive' op. By this, I mean that, by fusing the joint, he will have a significant recovery time but no further consequences at all, he will just walk a little funny as he wouldn't be able to bend his wrist iyswim? He would adapt quickly and have no arthritis.

The specialist was just not keen to do such a significant op at this stage, given he's weight baring, 'it would be like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut', were his words.

In the back of my mind is the fact it might come to this operation anyway, but also in the back of my mind is ddog1; when he injured his eye the surgeon was all for taking his eye out asap. We didn't do that, I asked for more time, the eye is completely stable, just a tiny fleck where the thorn went in.

Tis hard at the minute

Oh if it would actually fix it that's different...clearly I'm always going, oh whip it off, lol, as I remember telling you about my one eyed dog as well.

I mentioned my dog's age, just because at that point there were still quite a lot of commands he didn't know and I couldn't remember how old yours was...the younger they are the more chance there is of finding fairly straightforward ones they don't know to work on rather than having to invent ones.

Take it was useful because after he was off crate rest but still recovering I used it to train him to empty the washing machine and tumble dryer...which gave him a job to do. I did also try to extend the named toys into tidying them up, but I was less successful with that, mostly because the cats took over the toy basket as a bed, rofl.

Oh...treats hidden under plastic cups is another one, to find which one has a treat under it. Mine pretty much just knocked them all over tbh, but it entertained him.

You clearly have as much luck with your dogs as I do, lol, poor wee boy though.

Oh your poor little lad needa.

There are some good ideas .

As for him becoming more timid, I'd agree with tabulah and suggest doing things like driving him to places in the car and sitting next to his crate in the boot, click treating him to make positive associations with noise, movement, people etc. We used to do this with Pip when he was on his extended confinement and found supermarket and trading estate car parks really good for the number of things they can be exposed to.

I'd also consider setting up a few different confinement areas around the house, so he doesn't become fixated on having to be in the safety of his bed all the time.

Fwiw, I know of another pup that had a similar injury, albeit from being hit by a car, recently. His owners were told it would definitely need a major op to fuse the wrist or failing that, amputation, but after extended splinting and crate rest he's back running on the beach with no need for an op.

So sorry you are going through this.

Cross posted.

If he's worried about the car, then it's an ideal time to spend lots of time in there, giving him lots of positive associations - you don't even need to go anywhere with him to begin with, just get in, sit with him and feed or treat him.

Tab I now remember your advice re the eye, but had forgotten!

Yes, there's a lot i can do actually, now I think. Bloomin' ddog1 muscles in a bit, so I'll look up kikopup, as I remember she had an excellent video about teaching other dogs calm while others are trained.

He also doesn't have as much patience as ddog1. You can chuck some grated cheese on the lawn for him and he will still be there half an hour later, Hector will come and try and find me after 2 minutes. Similar for kongs etc, although bones and pigs ears work better.

moose That's a great idea about moving him about the house, hadn't considered this and I totally agree. Already, the crate in the kitchen is his safety net after 24 hours. I will look at the video when back in from work.

We are going to have a lot of work to do I can see

What annoys me is that none of this is his fault iyswim? Not that Harry's many incidents were his fault either, but he wasn't attacked, which seems to have made a difference to how I feel, I am so emotional about the whole thing.

Mine doesn't have much perseverance, if he can't shove things to get to stuff he'll give up pretty quickly (though working on that has helped, not relevant, but just as an aside) frozen raw chicken worked in a kong though - other things he either just chucked the kong about or gave up, but he really likes raw chicken and because it was all frozen together he could only manage to lick the top bit and had to work on it slowly.

My dog had his elbow done at 6 months, developed a spinal problem at a year, now has a 2 foot scar on his stomach from his ulcer...but the one that bugs me is a tiny scar on his ear that only needed glue, because that was someone's fault - he was attacked while on lead and muzzled by someone's dog who just had no control whatsoever and it really really annoys me still, partly because I have to go to great lengths to make sure he doesn't get the chance to do that.

I still spit feathers when I think about it.

I did march round with my vet's bill though and gave them a huge lecture on managing a dog with behavioural issues, lol, that helped a bit.

Use the video above - great ideas. Also we have walked the whole of the south west coast path with a "large" dog on crate rest . We used a doggy hut buggy with a bit of training he loved being able to get out and about. He was resting but not bored at all.

We got the buggy off ebay and even sold it for a profit when he was better

doggy buggy

Oh your poor pup needa

One of our cats is currently on extended crate rest (hit by a car, multiple pelvic fractures, extensive and expensive ortho surgery). He's a very active, atletic cat and I thought he'd be completely stir-crazy by now but he's surprised us by how well he's coping.

He loves curling up on someone's lap or just having someone sitting next to him (feeding him Dreamies) so dd's doing her h/w next to his crate. What he likes best is just having one of us nearby so it may be simpler than you think to keep H entertained (fingers crossed)

moose The video is really excellent, thank you very much. There's at least 5 things that would be easy to teach Hector, and more to move on to. Brill, thanks.

sodding - It's been easier so far than I thought for an active dog. He's happy being with me, it seems. I am sorry about your cat

mutty - Astonished such things exist!!

tab we've tried minced meat before, he's not fussed. Today he had a frozen kong with a bit of salmon and mascapone shoved in. You have to be careful or the other dog will grab it once the attention span has gone for the puppy. Your poor dog has had a lot of shit going on hasn't he?

I have let him potter a little in the kitchen today, while DS took ddog1 out. He seems very easy on his leg to be honest, and better for a touch of movement. He just moved wherever I moved, so hardly far, but it probably did him good.

Poor DDog, what a nightmare!

You have some great ideas already and are doing all the right things. A lot of breeders use dog buggies to socialise puppies before they are vaccinated so you may be able to pick one up second hand.

If he is stressy he may respond to Adaptil collars/diffusers and in this kind of situation it might be worth trying Zylkene tablets as well.

Not minced chicken...lumps, harder to get out, lol. Of course that only works if he likes chicken to be fair. That and scrambled eggs with cheese in are the only things mine will bother to keep at a kong for.

Yeah, my dog is just faulty, given his track record so far, I'm expecting him to just spontaneously combust at some point, rofl. But none of them still upset me like the bite on his ear does, just because it was the other owner's fault. (dog that had a history of biting, had in fact had a pop at mine before but while they were both on lead and he had it off lead and let it run up to mine and get a couple of good bites in before he got anywhere near and then it got in a couple more while he failed to catch it...it only stopped having a go at my dog because another one walked past and it went after that instead)

Boo - the vet has suggested an Adaptil collar, he said it will make him feel like he's had a couple of pints, a nice warm feeling

He doesn't get stressy as in wound up/barking/going crazy, just shivers and shakes and hides behind me, crouches low, wee's a bit. I can't change his basic temperament but do have the time and patience to try and counter this as much as I can.

tab - He's worse with lumps, gets even more bored The egg might work though. Clicker training he loves, practically wiggles about with excitement and can't keep still. In fact, the clicker I substitute for a calm 'yes' sometimes!! It's so frightening at the time isn't it? I was screaming like a banshee and trying to kick this dog off our puppy, you don't think about what you are actually doing. There's some bloody irresponsible owners walking around, and it's their dogs who walk away unscathed. Ours have physical and mental scars to deal with

3 times I've had dogs run over and go for him with literally no provocation other than walking past on a lead...it's horrible.

The first time was the worst for me as he was only about 9 months old and it was a little terrier, so I literally had to pin him down while it bit him as he understandably after a while tried to defend himself and I was really worried that he would seriously hurt the terrier. That was just so upsetting.

The last time with the ear just made me so angry...he had his own behavioural issues by then (hence the muzzle) so while the other dog was biting his ear and tail - my dog was trying to rip out his throat .

I did point out to the owner that if I was as irresponsible as him it would be him with an injured dog and leg actually as he'd tried to grab his dog and got too close to mine, because of the muzzle he just got a bang to the leg, but the intention was there.

Actually I recommended a behaviourist I've seen and everything, lol. I know the dog has since had a few more incidents on walks and knocked over an elderly woman walking past his house with her dog and the police are involved.

But it just makes me so angry because it's all preventable, that wasn't the first time his dog had done that and he still hasn't done anything to prevent it happening again. It didn't do anything to make my dog worse...but it could have set him back months and the next dog may not bounce back from it ok.

We've used Zylkene with Pip when he had to go into kennels. Must have worked because he loves the kennels now, despite still having SA at home - in fact he drags us down the drive to get in there when we're dropping him off.

I find something super stinky works in kongs to keep them interested. I used sardines in tomato sauce, mixed with kibble, packed in, then frozen.

Is Zylkene a medication? A sedative or calmer? I asked about sedation (it's something we did for dpony when he broke his leg) but he wasn't keen, something about long term side effects in small dogs but I wasn't fully taking everything in by then

He's in the kitchen, fully weight-bearing. Gently having a fight in his bed with a tiny Kong ball. You wouldn't think there's anything wrong

We've done lots of clicker stuff today, he's going to be as fat as a cow, despite me reducing his kibble to tiny amounts!!

I totally get folk getting so mad with dogs bounding up to their leashed dogs. Not that mine do, but I get it totally now tab

Zyklene is milk proteins I'm fairly sure...so not sedation.

I asked about sedating him on crate rest as well, lol .

Actually it was easier than I thought it would be, not easy, but easier if you see what I mean.

Zylkene is a natural product and from my research into it before using it on Pip it's totally safe, especially for short term use. It's not a sedative, more like an SSRI would be in humans, it calms and lifts the mood a little.

As above on Zylkene. It's natural product with no long term counter indications and not a sedative but it does seem to help a lot of dogs and cats through stressful situations.

Needastrongone a bit expensive but a great new book (by excellent positive trainers) on what to do with dogs on restricted exercise