How much exercise does your dog get ( working breed ), how much is enough?

[marne2]

Ok, so I often post about my crazy dog. He never settles, always whines and every time I move he jumps up.

People keep saying 'he needs more exercise' but I'm spending most of the day exercising him ( I feel it's taking over my life ). Our average daily routine is as follows:

6am we get up and he is fed ( I feed him by chucking his food across the garden to keep him bust for 10 minutes ).

8am he is either walked or we play ball for half an hour on the field in front of our house ( I play ball until he slows down and is worn out ).

9.15am I get back from the school run, he is full of energy, pacing around and whining, I try to ignore or I give him a bone ( or stuffed kong ).

12pm, he is still whining , he whines whilst I eat my lunch so after lunch I take him for a long walk ( around a hour ) which also involves half an hour chasing the ball across a field, constant running.

2pm and he is full of beans again, pacing around, jumping up as soon as I look at him. I ignore.

3.30pm I get back from school run, by now he is hyper, jumping around,playing with my other dog and the kids.

4.30pm he starts whining for his dinner ( which isn't until 5.30pm ) I ignore even though the whining is doing everyone's head in.

5.30pm, I feed the dogs, again I feed him by scattering his food over the garden for him to sniff out.

6pm and he is whining again, wanting a walk, I hold out as long as I can in hope to tire him out enough for him to sleep during the evening. Eventually I give in and he is walked again for another 45 minutes to an hour and plays bull for most of this ( so is running for over half an hour ).

7.30pm, I'm trying to put the kids to bed and dog is pacing around winding the other dog up ( who is trying to sleep ), I end up having to shout at him to lie down.

8.30pm he eventually sleeps.

I feel I have tried everything to teach him to settle, I try and reward him when he lies down but as soon as I do this he jumps up and gets hyper again and takes a hour to settle back down. If I keep any for of treat on me he goes crazy. I'm tired from all the walking and playing ball, I rarely get time to spend with my family ( the dd's can't walk with me due to a medical condition ). I want to be able to miss a walk if I am feeling tired or ill but I can't as he goes crazy.

For those who can't remember my other posts, he is a almost 2 year old lab x collie, we got him as a pup from a rescue, they have offered advice ( told me to stop walking him as much as I'm giving him too much attention ), have tried doing this but it was hell.

We feed him on James well beloved or wainwrights ( only food that doesn't upset his tummy ), we used to crate him but her worked out how to open the crate and he has outgrown the crate ( we don't have space for a larger one ), I am tempted to get a outdoor kennel but I feel a bit mean. He does need to learn to settle himself and to a use himself, at the moment her can't do either, at the moment he has me doing everything he wants and this needs to change .

Definitely a case of the colliex training you ....they are clever manipulative dogs .

It will be hard to start with but it will save you sanity if you do drop back on the attention.

If the dog is bouncing about demanding attention ignore him, leave the room, turn your back and cross your arms. If your dog is lying on the mat still, then reward with attention - go for a walk, throw the ball.

Do check the food you are giving him and treats he does not need a high protein kibble (raw would be great but that is a personal choice).

Teach the dog that calm attention gets the reward.

If it is possible and with family routine this may be hard. Could you walk him before he is fed? If he has a good walk and then is fed most dogs will chill. I would then introduce a crate at this stage to help. Crate will soon help to encourage calm if he only goes in it after exercise and with a full tummy. Don't lock him in just let him be relaxed in the crate to start with. If this does work for you I can help with training to develop this activity.

Half an hour sessions of ball throwing is mad and not healthy for the dog or you.

If you want more info and detailed advice feel free to pm

If he's got food intolerances that might be a factor...as in that food might be better for his stomach but still has something in that is affecting his behaviour, you'd need a vet to help work that out though really.

Have just fed him using the kong wobbler in the garden ( seems to be taking him longer because the grass is long ), sometimes I walk him before I feed him and sometimes after, I try not to keep it the same every day.

I have a collie who gets two hour long walks a day (on a long line atm) but gets lots of training and absolutely no throwing of a ball. He does have toys but no one is allowed to throw them for him.
I do sessions of training which involve no speaking or hand signals, he has to work out what I want. So he has to sit, then a treat, sit for 5 seconds then a treat, 10 seconds, a treat, step away and back with him staying in a sit, jog on the spot in front of him with him staying in the sit and gradually add things to the list or mix them up. After about ten minutes of this he is calm and settled. Absolutely no speaking during this training, seems to tire him more than anything.
We also do lots of finding things but we do have a rule of no excited high pitched voices as that whips him into a frenzy.

Also we raw feed which has a reputation for calming dogs down, he gets some marrow bones too which keep him occupied.

NCIS is ball fetching bad for collies then?

I never like seeing how obsessed my girl gets when I've got the ball thrower with me but it helped train her against chasing cars/cyclists/children playing football.

I try and do regular walks without a ball, such as to the woods, where she seems just as happy to run and explore.

We don't do it at the moment because it increases his desire to chase. It's never worked to stop him chasing joggers etc as ,to him, the thrill of chasing a bike/jogger is even greater.
If we can get to point where he is more selective about what he chases we can go back to throwing but he is completely obsessive about a ball until a jogger passes by.
Don't think it's bad for them all but it is for mine.

My dog would be lost without his ball, he gets so excited when I get the ball thrower out that he dribbles ( it pours out of his mouth ), he won't chase anything else and it keeps him distracted from other dogs, if I have the ball he won't even look at any other dogs, if I don't have a ball he will run towards them to play.

Yesterday he drove me nuts, I went out in the morning and left the dogs with dh, they were fine for him but as soon as I got home it was constant crying, jumping up, asking to be walked. I finally settled him down and my dad visited and decided to chuck toys around the living room for him, I had to tell him off but he took no notice and the dog ended up totally hyper, I had to take him out after my dad had gone because he just wouldn't settle down.

Today I havn't taken him out yet, we have got through an hour of crying and he has finally led down, I will take him out once the sun comes out and I'm ready to take him ( not when he has pissed me off so much I give in and take him ).

Can you do more training with him? Sounds like his brain needs tiring out rather than his body.

Wowzers! That is a handful of a dog, poor you feeling like this! Does your other dog go along with you on all these walks too?? Is the collie trying to be the alpha?

A few things I do that could maybe help you out:

Deffo start some brain work, when I can't do a huge walk with mine we do brain stuff in the house and it seems to knacker them!

Mine only get fed after they have 'worked'. Whether that's brain stuff or a walk. A walk followed by food helps them relax and I think helps reinforce that I run the show. I also only feed them once a day properly. They get a dentastick type thing in the morning and a meal in the evening.

A bloody good bed does wonders! Don't underestimate the power of a snuggley bed.

Also, I don't crate my dogs, but I do have a routine with collars. Collars only get put on for working, I think it helps tune them in to being switched on. And conversely when the collars come off, it's clear that it is relaxing time.

I have two very active and very fit pointer crosses who at the moment are both snoring their heads off having had one hours walk and one half hour walk today coupled with some skills work. Max time spent today is 1hr 45mins and they are pooped!

Try not to give into the whinging otherwise it's only reinforcing that the collie has the power to make you do his bidding! Really good luck, it must be driving you potty

I too have a working lines young and very active dog (a working lines Goldie). It wouldn't matter how many hours I ran her around for tbh, I'd only succeed in making her fitter and in need of even more exercise!
I think you are seriously overdoing the ball throwing and charging about tbh, which is contributing to the adrenaline rush which stops your dog being able to chill out.
Decide how much walking you are prepared to do each day. A sensible amount which balances your dogs need for exercise with yours for a life. Then stick to it! Try to add in a scent game or two and some simple obedience stuff out on walks to use his mind too, as this will be a far more effective and tiring walk.

No high octane play at home, definitely balls/fetch games out on walks only. A longish lasting chew after a walk often has a calming effect to reduce excitement levels. Add in a couple of 15 minute training sessions for tricks/obedience etc at home - I keep back a third of the daily food ration for finding games, trick rewards etc so she keeps nice and trim.
No dog should NEED more than that, so the rest of the time ignore his whining and shenanigans. Use time out if he continues to be a PITA. With consistency he will soon get the message!

Our other dog is the opposite, very lazy, I take her with us on one of the walks each day and she sleeps most of the day, I think that's why I'm finding this one such hard work . I will try cutting back on the ball games in hope to calm him down a little. Dh has given in to him today and taken him out twice playing ball .

I think we are getting somewhere, we havn't played ball games for 2 days other than when we are on a walk ( no continues throwing to tire him out ), yesterday he had 2 long walks, so far today he has had one walk and will have another this evening. He's actually asleep in the arm chair and I have managed to to the ironing and bake a cake without him trying to follow me and without any crying. Hopefully it's not just a one off.

Sounds good marne2 I never realised that you can overstimulate a collie until I had this one, as someone said to me 'you can walk a collie as much as you like and all you'll do is make them fitter'. After all they're designed to cover around 75 miles a day when working. Give them something for their brain to do and you'll calm them down much more.

I have a dog like this - we can walk all day, train, do scentwork, all food fed in enriching ways and she will still mither me as soon as she gets bored. I would walk her for 3-4 hours a day, provide multiple enrichment sources (including feeding toys, nina ottonsen games and a digging pit and sensory garden), we would train including shaping and scentwork for between 30 and 45 minutes a day and I would still be subjected to her climbing on the sofa and barking in my face. She's a greyhound - it was a shock to the system for me!

What worked with her is teaching her to switch off. So we do mat work at the end of each training session in the evening which is designed to teach her to relax. Dogs are very susceptible to biomechanical feedback so by rewarding the relaxed behaviours on the mat (rolled on one hip, increased blink rate, lowered heart rate and breathing) it will start to get them to relax. Only use the mat for those training sessions so the dog starts to associate the mat with being relaxed and chilling out (put it away at all other times).

Make sure you have plenty of things to lick and chew around the house as well (cow's hooves filled with mince and stag bars smeared with peanut butter are a favourite here) as chewing and licking are again very relaxing for dogs.

P.S.I have actually enjoyed figuring out ways to entertain and stimulate her so much I have a malinois puppy coming next year. I have a list of games and ideas I send out to clients (I'm a behaviourist) so PM me if you want it.

Thank you Fisher, I am trying to reward him when he is led down, not sure if he is getting it yet, tonight was a big test, I usually walk him in the evening but because dh was working I couldn't tonight ( couldn't leave the dd's and they won't/can't walk far ), he had his dinner and then started the crying for his walk, I ignored and distracted him, eventually he went out into the garden by himself ( which is very rare ) and then played with my other dog, he is now settled down and fast asleep, so he has only been walked once today and has survived .

Everyone has said everything I was going to say (over stimulation, too much ball throwing, etc).

Glad to hear you've made some progress. I don't think anyone has linked this. It may be worthwhile. The entire youtube channel is brilliant for finding new behaviours to teach so that the house is a happier place and also just for some fun/mental stimulation.

Not read whole thread but to some extent you may be conditioning dog to want all this exercise - it's become the dogs routine and expectation.

My 8 month old flatcoat retriever is high maintenance. I am supposed to walk him for 45 minutes (5 mins per month of life) but it does creep up to 1 hour sometimes. He goes twice a day - early morning and late afternoon. He'd like more and mooches around looking dejected but I say to him "Bug off - you've had two walks, a stuffed kong and some lurve - what more do you want!" (I find it helps me to verbalise it ), and then I resolutely ignore him.

I also find watching an episode of the Dog Rescuers reaffirms what a fabulous dog owner I am and that he has the life of Riley

I don't think it sounds like your dog needs more exercise. I think it's a mental thing, or his place in the pack. There's a great book on this, I'll try to find the name... Hold on...

Did someone recommend you chuck his food all over the garden?

Several people recommended scattering his food around the garden, he eats very fast and has a few issues around food ( basically he is a pig ), it keeps him busy and slows him down giving my other dog time to eat without him trying to eat hers too.

Scatter feeding is great for mental stimulation and keeping him busy - I would intersperse it with other ways of feeding him as well so he doesn't get too used to it. We have a collection of feeding toys here but the favourite and the one that keeps the monster busy for longest is the Kong satellite.

He does sound massively overstimulated and just unable to switch off. Don't just reward him for lying down as you're actually looking for the body language that shows you he is relaxed that I mentioned. Just rewarding him for lying down and you will only get the behaviour offered and not the associated change in emotional state. If he's a collie x he is going to be ace at learning behaviour and will enjoy working with you but that isn't what we're looking for in this situation.

Oh and it's nothing to do with place in the pack - dogs are not pack animals and only compete/come together over scarce resources. Other then that feral dogs are actually relatively solitary.

Thanks fisher, that kong satellite looks great, he has the kong wobbler but he empties that quite quickly. I havn't taken him out yet today and he is led by my feet crying now, I will take him out after lunch for one long walk and that will be it for today. He picks up on things really quick but this means he has picked up some bad habits and gets stuck in routines ( if I walk him at 1pm today her expects it the same time tomorrow ) so I'm trying not to have any kind of routine and walk him at different times each day.

The bonus with all the walking is my other dog is losing weight, she was a bit overweight as she likes to sleep all day.